Browning or Tram

[**GRUMPY**]

This question is for those who own or have owned both Browning & Tram radios. Which one do you like best?
Please give details on make and model you have used or use currently. What you like and dislike about a certain model.

This may help others who are thinking of buying one. Again... this is only for those who have owned or own a Browning or Tram, not for what you have heard on the air or because your buddy owns one!

Thanks

[spitfire441]

Well, tough question. I have a Browning MK IV and a Tram Titan IV, I like them both, I don't think I like one more than the other, with maybe the exception of the Brownings ping. I love the Comments on the ping.

[**GRUMPY**]

Oh come on Pete, you're telling me there is no difference in the receive from one to the other, transmit power or audio, controls, dependability ect...
This is what I am looking for, a real break down of these radios!

[spitfire441]

Well, I have to say that I am still fence sitting on this one. The reason is, I have not finished properly restoring (undoing power mod) the Titan IV. The power out is BIG, but audio is avarage. The power resistors on the final have been changed and a reduction in modulation headroon is reduced but puts out about 8 watts dead key and 20 watts peak, all stolen from the modulation. Just waiting on an order of some resistors and caps to finish it up. I love the RX on the Titan, I swear it is just as good as the Browning MKIV.
For right now I have to say the MKIV is the audio king, but it is a restored, squared away radio. The MKIV does about 4 watt DK and about 14 watts on audio.
I suppose I'll need to run them side by side on the test bench and crunch some numbers.
I have operated the MKIV more than the Titan IV so I have to say I am more familiar with its characteristics. It is one sweet performing radio. I think the tone controls and the ANL do a fine job too.
I'll have to add to this when the Titan is done. I also have a Browning MKIII, I have not even got to testing yet. I have alot of projects on the plate. So hopefully by the time it gets cold in PA again I should have the Titan and the MK III as well as the MKIV to run comparisons on.

[Sandbagger]

Jul 29, 2008 3:13:21 GMT -5 **GRUMPY** said:

This question is for those who own or have owned both Browning & Tram radios. Which one do you like best?
Please give details on make and model you have used or use currently. What you like and dislike about a certain model.

This may help others who are thinking of buying one. Again... this is only for those who have owned or own a Browning or Tram, not for what you have heard on the air or because your buddy owns one!

Thanks

First off, let me just say that the question itself is like asking which car Ford or Chevy? There are loyal owners of both, and it's hard to be completely objective.

Same deal with the Browning/Tram question. Right now, I am in the process of writing an article for my website which attempts to answer this elusive question. I'm attempting to remain objective as much as I can. I've also done the "A-B" comparison during one of the Classic Radio roundups to solicit opinions on which radio sounds better. The thing that's holding me up from completing the article is that the Browning's receiver is still a little weak. I need to replace the 2 12AT7 tubes as they tested weak.

The other problem is that we all are comparing 2 35 year old radios, which most likely are not performing as well as they did when they were first made. Unless you replace each and every part that may have drifted a bit, you might not be getting optimal performance. That being said, here are my personal opinions of the 2 radios:

Receiver sensitivity: Tram. My D201 has the hottest receiver of ANY of my radios, hands down.

Noise reduction: Tram. It has a noise limiter and blanker. The Browning only has a simple noise limiter.

Split operation: Browning. You can operate the TX and RX on separate frequencies and modes. The Tram can do almost the same thing, with frequency, but not modes.

Features: Tram. I especially like the Transmit Tone Control. The early Tram also had a VOX which is a rarity on a CB radio.

Transmit audio preference: Based on the feedback I got from the roundup, the Tram wins as well. The Browning is a solid audio performer, but it's hard to beat the power of the 6L6 tube in the Tram.

SSB operation: I'd have to say the Tram wins as well. The SSB detector in the MKIII is crappy, with nothing more than a BFO and no crystal filter. The Tram uses a more sophisticated product detector and has a crystal filter. The Tram will also put out twice the RF power of the Browning.

Longevity/Reliability: Based on my experience, I'd have to say that the Browning wins this one handily. The Trams have a ton of cap and resistor problems when 100,000 miles rolls on by. The Browning requires far fewer part replacements to restore to operation.

Sex Appeal: The Browning wins hands down. There is nothing out there that rivals the ping and the legend that it represents. Any time the DX is rolling and I fire up the Browning, someone out there is always making a comment about it.

Fun Factor: This is a toss-up. On AM, the Browning has a slight edge. But on SSB, I'd rather run just about any of my other radios than the Browning. The Tram does ok on SSB, as long as you're not running the modified manual tuner where drift can be an issue.

Did I miss anything? Probably. But those are my subjective opinions. Some of it is based on real numbers. When I finally get my Browning up to it's full capability, I'll put them both on the bench and run the performance numbers and have the objective comparison as well.

[**GRUMPY**]

Thanks guys, this is what I am looking for. Even though these radios are 30+ years old, there is still a big request for them. Yes some will be different then other due to age, ownership, maintenance etc. But this can really help the person out there that has never has either one of these radios. I myself prefer Brownings, but with that said I have had some mean Tram radios in my day as well. I have owned many Browning and Tram radios over the years. Some have been the same make and model, none of them have performed the same. I will do my breakdown on each one soon. I have had like 10 different R27/S23's and at least 7 Mark III's. I keep a record of this stuff so I want to be fair and break them down and even out the pro's and con's on each model.
I am sure I can be fair to each brand!

[Tombstone (R.I.P.)]

I use Brownings Golden Eagle, Golden Eagle Mark III, and an R27, S23. I have also owned Tram D201"s. The Trams that I have experience with had great receive and audio and a noise blanker that the Brownings don't have but the D201/A's seem to have too many problems compared to the Brownings.

[Dr. Rigamortis]

Well I'm partial to Brownings as well. But I have both, have operated both, and I get more comments on the Mark IV than I do ANY of my other radios. I can do the same thing with skip. I can get on the Tram D201 and they will say, Man, that thing has some awsome audio, then I switch to the Mark IV, and they are like wow, listen to that ping, that thing has some awsome audio...?? I think alot of it also depends on the mic, and the amplifier. That D&A Phantom will make any radio sound loud with 800 watts in skip! I really like the receiver of the Browning better. In my opinion, it has a lower "hissssss" level than the Tram. And actually, the 1969 Golden Eagle with the Collins filter has vertually NO noice until some one keys their radio. I have even pecked on it before to make sure it was receiving. I do like the VFO option on the Tram if it has been modified properly. Being able to use the VFO and switches that is installed from factory for the additional channels is great. I do like being able to adjust the transmit tone on the Tram too. but when it comes to setting yourself apart from the average radio operator, you have to be operating a Browning. When you key that think up, swing that Banana mic around, hit a low tone, then a high note......man...you just think....this is what classic radio is all about. Gives me chills!

[gator7]

I use a MK III w/ the HF receiver, Not much ping in my old eagle. But I love the reports I get on the great audio. Had a Browning mobile, I think it was the brownie. Didn't care for it very much.

Love my Eagles. ;D

73, Gator 7

[husker]

It's almost like a religion. I use both, but I seem to be drawn to the Trams first.

[mark4]

OK, Over all use I would say browning. Now I have upgraded and built a MarkIVA from near scratch also. And the sensitivity on my restored brownings is just as good as the restored tram D201. The Tram has crystal clear audio. So do the brownings with the mics I run. Audio quality I would say maybe the Tram. But I need to hear it for myself! I work often in a recording studio with some of the best tube mics in the world. And have a very critical ear. Many people to me are deaf! Or have no good audio perception.
We all know individuals who think tinny over modulated junk sounds good. And give people stellar radio checks that sound like crap! The ANL circuitry in the browning is much better than the Tram D201. But it does not have a noise blanker. Trams noise blanker has to be shut off with strong incoming signals. Otherwise you get distortion. And it likes to oscillate even after proper calibration in some sets. Dependability hands down browning. I don't much care for the unkey pop on the D201/A. More later....

[Dr. Rigamortis]

I will agree that the anl system on the Brownings is better and the Brownings in my opinion are way more dependable than the Tram. Seems like there is always somethign that a person could do to a Tram. I can also hear a tinnnnny tick tick tick tick tick tick in mine, almost like a second hand on a clock coming from my speaker...I cant figure that out. GO BROWNINGS!

[**GRUMPY**]

Jul 29, 2008 8:49:36 GMT -5 husker said:

It's almost like a religion. I use both, but I seem to be drawn to the Trams first.

Care to share a little more please?

[husker]

LOL...well it's like the old days, people only believed in a specific religion and everyone else's beliefs was wrong..the same with politics I guess.. Where as I love al the old radios, but I tend to play more with the Trams as I think maybe because they are much more high maintenance. Sound better ??

[mark4]

I'm still worried about the tic tic tic.
Maybe your better half put something in your radio. lol

[Dr. Rigamortis]

Well she would have had to done it before she left last December! Must be on one heck of a delayed timer.

[mark4]

oops

[2600]

For me, it's the D201, hands down.

Has a noise blanker. Browning doesn't.

The level of power-line noise here makes a Browning hard to use, until we get a good, soaking rainfall. Until the rain stops, I can hear fairly well on a Browning. But once the soil drains, and all those rotted-out ground rods begin to arc underground, the Tram can hear 'through' some of the noise with the noise blanker.

So long as nobody is loud enough to bleed through it.

But when the noise level pushes a Browning's S-meter to 8 or 9, you won't hear anybody weaker than that in this neighborhood.

73

[**GRUMPY**]

Aug 1, 2008 1:36:19 GMT -5 2600 said:

For me, it's the D201, hands down.

Has a noise blanker. Browning doesn't.

The level of power-line noise here makes a Browning hard to use, until we get a good, soaking rainfall. Until the rain stops, I can hear fairly well on a Browning. But once the soil drains, and all those rotted-out ground rods begin to arc underground, the Tram can hear 'through' some of the noise with the noise blanker.

So long as nobody is loud enough to bleed through it.

But when the noise level pushes a Browning's S-meter to 8 or 9, you won't hear anybody weaker than that in this neighborhood.

73

Which Browning model are you referring too, all of them or just certain models?

[2600]

Ahh..... ALL Browning receivers have ONLY an Automatic Noise Limiter, or ANL. This circuit works by cutting the noise pulses down to the same audio level as a voice-modulated AM signal. Better than nothing.

NONE of them have a noise blanker.

A noise blanker amplifies the noise pulses, and then uses them to silence the receiver briefly, during each noise pulse. This way of doing things is not foolproof. Works best on spark-plug noise. Power-line noise will sometimes overwhelm a blanker circuit, but when it's working right a blanker can bring a voice signal seemingly out of nowhere when it's switched on.

Sure wish someone (else) would work up an effective add-on blanker for Browning receivers.

That would get my old birds off the shelf and on the air more often, most likely.

73

[**GRUMPY**]

Ahhh, I think I know this much that they don't have a noise blanker. But does that mean that all models have the same noise problem as you describe?, that was my question!

Also... what type of antenna are you using. This also could be more of the problem than the radio.

I have found the noise problem you describe more with the R27,Mark II and the Mark III. The Mark IVA that I have doesn't seem to have this problem!

[Sandbagger]

Aug 2, 2008 1:03:48 GMT -5 **GRUMPY** said:

Ahhh, I think I know this much that they don't have a noise blanker. But does that mean that all models have the same noise problem as you describe?, that was my question!

Also... what type of antenna are you using. This also could be more of the problem than the radio.

I have found the noise problem you describe more with the R27,Mark II and the Mark III. The Mark IVA that I have doesn't seem to have this problem!

The presence of noise is not a fault of the radios, but the inability to get rid of it is.

Some people, unfortunately, live in areas with old power distribution infrastructure, and the insulators and ground connections etc. are breaking down and tend to arc. This puts out a broadband comb of static which can be hell to hear through. Some radios have better noise elimination circuits than others. I know when I was running my 102" whip on the gutter, I used to get creamed by harmonics of my networking and computer stuff. Depending on the I.F. frequency and design of the radio, some could hear fairly well, while others got swamped out. In my case, one of the worst radios was the Royce 640, which had a solid S5 noise level (and a 455 khz IF). The best radio was the Hy-Gain 623, which had a narrow pass band, and not a 455 Khz I.F..

So many people compare radios on the basis of how well they sound on transmit. But I've found that the biggest differences between radios lies in the performance of their receivers and how well you can hear the weak ones in the presence of interference and noise. That's one nice thing about having a pile of classics to compare to.

[Dr. Rigamortis]

Sandbagger I experienced the same problem here this winter. I knew it was electrical interference, but wasnt sure what it was exactley. Till one day the electric company came and shut off a neighbors over 1/4 mile aways dusk to dawn light after they moved. The noise left. HOWEVER....ALL of my Brownings, Mark IV seemed to be the worse, had a solid S7 to S9 level, and it was worse when it was dry. If it rained, the noise was gone. The Tram was a little better... Usually a S5, and I could hear couple others on it that I couldnt on the Browning. But the radio that elemenated ALL the noise was a little old President Dwight D. I didnt get any noise with the blanker on and I could hear everyone just fine. If I hooked up any of the tube radios, it was bad.

Now comparing Brownings, I have noticed that the Mark II with the Collins mechanical filter has a LOW noise floor and hears exceptionally well. Less noise than the Mark III and Mark IV. The Golden Eagle and Mark II both have the Collins filter and they hear very good compared to the Tram.

[Sandbagger]

Aug 2, 2008 16:00:36 GMT -5 Dr. Rigamortis said:

Sandbagger I experienced the same problem here this winter. I knew it was electrical interference, but wasnt sure what it was exactley. Till one day the electric company came and shut off a neighbors over 1/4 mile aways dusk to dawn light after they moved. The noise left. HOWEVER....ALL of my Brownings, Mark IV seemed to be the worse, had a solid S7 to S9 level, and it was worse when it was dry. If it rained, the noise was gone. The Tram was a little better... Usually a S5, and I could hear couple others on it that I couldnt on the Browning. But the radio that elemenated ALL the noise was a little old President Dwight D. I didnt get any noise with the blanker on and I could hear everyone just fine. If I hooked up any of the tube radios, it was bad.

Now comparing Brownings, I have noticed that the Mark II with the Collins mechanical filter has a LOW noise floor and hears exceptionally well. Less noise than the Mark III and Mark IV. The Golden Eagle and Mark II both have the Collins filter and they hear very good compared to the Tram.

The late model Uniden designed radios, like the Cobra 148/Uniden Grant etc, have one of the best noise blanking circuits par none.

It's a bummer when there is high static noise. Like you've observed, the older rigs don't handle the high static as well as the newer ones with advanced noise reduction circuits. I'm glad I live in a neighborhood with underground utilities. But just wait until everyone is forced to use those flourecent screw-in light bulbs. From what I hear, they can be very noisy to radio receivers. It would be a shame if I couldn't enjoy my classic radios.....

[Dr. Rigamortis]

I have one of those neat cork screw looking bulbs in the "transmitter room" closet, and it doesnt seem to bother me at all here. One other thing that I do to help elemenate noise is keep EVERYTHING grounded.

[giboni]

Actually posted on another thread the upgrade parts for the Tram201 that will eliminate most of the noise and give it an exceptional noise floor.A bit tired and will have to look through my posts and copy it here.It involves what is known as Crystal Lattice filters.The other is replacing some of the Tubes to audio low noise types.I use 6hr6 instead of a 6Ba6 and the others are Low noise Mullards.The 12AX6 is a Low noise Sovitek that drives the Speaker.The Kits are no longer available.However you could build using 4 high quality ceramic filters a 16 element 16 pole pole crystal lattice filter that would work in the Tram 201.A current company specialises in making these for antique Ham equipment.To cut costs they are willing to fabricate ones for the Tram 201 but the minimum order would have to be twenty kits X 2 to make it worth while.The other issue would be getting 20 people to have an interest in purchasing these kits 2each radio.I have a Murata 12 pole set in my Tram.The board is fed by 9volts dc from a drop down resistor and I do not remember from where the power comes.Murata's 455 I do not think are made anymore but better or just as good ones are available.The other change was removing one crystal in the Tram and replacing it with three custom cut crystals with a much tighter skirt.This board also is fed from 9vdc.The reason for this power is that small PNP amplifiers have to be added due to the losses incurred with the added stages.I kid you not even though one stage is only a 12 pole my Tram 201 rivaled Ham recievers.It was quieter than my souped up 148 or mirage export which had the modified 455 using three 455 Muratas.With a very low noise floor I could hear stations that my other radios did not pick up AM or SSB.Thier is something besides the tube changes that can be done with the Mark III but can't remember now.Mark 4 most likely can take one or both types of recieve modification the Tram will take.The 455 for sure and a custom cut triple crystal most likely.Would have to look at the schematic of the IF chain.And yes grounding is certainly a cost effective solution that helps a lot!

[gator7]

Yes, I do have noise issues with my MK III at times. It can be as bad as 2600 described, 8-9 db levels. Thank god that is only a few times a month.
As for the Trams, I never have owned one. But I will say that back in the day in Connecticut we had two stations that ran them. Both were rock solid stations.
When I was in the market for my 1st Classic purchase, Browning or Tram. It was a tough time, but the Mark III won.
Love my Eagles.

73's

[**GRUMPY**]

The presence of noise is not a fault of the radios, but the inability to get rid of it is.

Some people, unfortunately, live in areas with old power distribution infrastructure, and the insulators and ground connections etc. are breaking down and tend to arc. This puts out a broadband comb of static which can be hell to hear through. Some radios have better noise elimination circuits than others. I know when I was running my 102" whip on the gutter, I used to get creamed by harmonics of my networking and computer stuff. Depending on the I.F. frequency and design of the radio, some could hear fairly well, while others got swamped out. In my case, one of the worst radios was the Royce 640, which had a solid S5 noise level (and a 455 khz IF). The best radio was the Hy-Gain 623, which had a narrow pass band, and not a 455 Khz I.F..

So many people compare radios on the basis of how well they sound on transmit. But I've found that the biggest differences between radios lies in the performance of their receivers and how well you can hear the weak ones in the presence of interference and noise. That's one nice thing about having a pile of classics to compare to.

Agreed. But it would be much wiser to use an antenna that doesn't pick up all the static like the A99 and I-Max 2k antennas which a more prone to static. Using a aluminum antenna will help a lot in this area. I really don't see much difference at all between my Tram D201 and my Browning Mark IVA when it comes to one being better than the other for noise. The Tram is better then the R27,Mark II and Mark III.
The best radios I have ever used with best NB/ANL is the President HR2510 and the President Jackson. Putting either of these radios in-line would smash any of the Browning or Tram radios for receive. They were simply the best radios for receive that I ever owned!

[**GRUMPY**]

Aug 2, 2008 21:25:38 GMT -5 Dr. Rigamortis said:

I have one of those neat cork screw looking bulbs in the "transmitter room" closet, and it doesnt seem to bother me at all here. One other thing that I do to help elemenate noise is keep EVERYTHING grounded.

I also use these types of light bulbs and have no problems with them!

[Sandbagger]

Aug 3, 2008 8:44:27 GMT -5 **GRUMPY** said:

Aug 2, 2008 21:25:38 GMT -5 Dr. Rigamortis said:

I have one of those neat cork screw looking bulbs in the "transmitter room" closet, and it doesnt seem to bother me at all here. One other thing that I do to help elemenate noise is keep EVERYTHING grounded.

I also use these types of light bulbs and have no problems with them!

Supposedly, from what I've read, they become a problem when they start to get old. So new ones will probably not be a problem yet.