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Post by BBB on Nov 12, 2012 11:30:14 GMT -5
Got an audio report that my D201 has a hum and I'm sure it's whistling that infamous 60Hz tune. I can hear it slightly thru the speaker as well.
I found a new drop in replacement multi can capacitor for the original 40-40-40 @ 450 VDC for $36.95
I'm not having any luck finding the 10-10-10-10 @ 500 VDC. I did see some that were close and was wondering if any of these would work:
20-10-10-10 @ 450 VDC 20-20-20-20 @ 475 VDC 30-20-20-20 @ 525 VDC
These are also new from CE Manufacturing. I'm a little leery purchasing NOS electrolytics and didn't necessarily want to install "separate" caps under the chassis. Just want to make sure if I substitute one of these that I won't blow anything up.
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss
Posts: 6,245
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 12, 2012 11:46:15 GMT -5
Got an audio report that my D201 has a hum and I'm sure it's whistling that infamous 60Hz tune. I can hear it slightly thru the speaker as well. I found a new drop in replacement multi can capacitor for the original 40-40-40 @ 450 VDC for $36.95 I'm not having any luck finding the 10-10-10-10 @ 500 VDC. I did see some that were close and was wondering if any of these would work: 20-10-10-10 @ 450 VDC 20-20-20-20 @ 475 VDC 30-20-20-20 @ 525 VDC These are also new from CE Manufacturing. I'm a little leery purchasing NOS electrolytics and didn't necessarily want to install "separate" caps under the chassis. Just want to make sure if I substitute one of these that I won't blow anything up. The rule of thumb is that higher values are acceptable, but NEVER go lower, especially with respect to the voltage rating. The D201 runs its B+ at every bit of 410V, and the "raw" DC nears 425V. So I'd go with choice number #3
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Post by BBB on Nov 12, 2012 12:37:36 GMT -5
Okay that makes sense. I haven't had the chance to look at a schematic to see just what the 10-10-10-10 @ 500VDC cap bank does. But if it's just filter duty, I'll go for the higher voltage rated can.
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Post by 2600 on Nov 12, 2012 17:06:20 GMT -5
The higher rating has mostly to do with what happens while the tubes are still cold, while they warm up.
Check these caps with a voltmeter at cold turn-on and you'll see the voltage jump up to 470 or 480 Volts for the first minute or so. As the tubes warm up and begin to pull current from the power supply, the voltages will all drop to 400 or less. More than low enough to be safe for a cap rated at 450.
But for that warm-up interval, a 450-Volt cap gets stressed a bit. Usually not enough to blow them out soon, but it's bound to shorten their life a bit.
P.S. CE Distributing has been making those twist-lock 4-section filters. They bought the old production equipment from Mallory a few years back. Not sure if the ones you mention are really Old stock, or recent production. They are the last outfit on earth who still has them made, AFIK.
73
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Post by BBB on Nov 12, 2012 19:35:33 GMT -5
Glad at least to see they still make 'em. Wonder if they would make the 4-10...10-4? They have a few "crossover" items from the tube guitar amplifier industry that may be interesting. Here's just a sampling of their caps: www.cedist.com/products/capacitorsOnce I saw the part numbers I searched them on the web and found some distributors.
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Post by 2600 on Nov 13, 2012 22:59:39 GMT -5
That's where we buy the "JJ" 500-Volt 2-section filters for Trams and Brownings. The third section of the 3-section caps is not relevant to the D201, since two of them are tied together. That third section on a Browning becomes a separate single-section cap.
The 500-Volt rating on their dual 100uf part is plenty enough to protect it from a cold D201. Replaces the original tall 3-section filter with some rating to spare.
73
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Post by BBB on Nov 15, 2012 11:43:33 GMT -5
Am I understanding correctly that you can substitute the 100/100 @ 500 for the stock 40-40-40 @ 500 VDC multi-cap in the Tram D201 only?
And that you'll definitely need a 3 section cap for the Browning Mark III's?
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Post by 2600 on Nov 17, 2012 0:21:28 GMT -5
In the D201, that 3-by-40uf part has two sections wired together. Functionally, it's a two-section 80uf + 40uf. Using the 2-by-100uf capacitor is slight overkill for the 80uf side, and fair overkill for the 40uf side. The 500-Volt rating is NOT overkill in a Tram. It's a pain to drill out the rivets and remove the twist-lock saddle plate. But the mount holes for the saddle clamp that fits the 2-by-100 at 500V line up just fine. I put a ground lug with the inside teeth under one of the nuts under the new clamp to serve as the ground connection. The additional capacitance doesn't gain you much in performance, but doesn't hurt.
In a Browning, the full-wave doubler circuit uses two filters in series to form the doubler circuit. As a result, one of the 450-Volt sections in that 3-section cap has only half the B+ voltage on it. Using a pair of single-section 250-Volt caps in series for the doubler leaves us needing only two more sections of 40uf each. The 2-by-50uf 500-Volt caps are overkill on the voltage rating, but not by all that much. Same mounting protocol. Drill out the rivets, remove the old twist-lock saddle plate and bolt down the saddle clamp to hold the new filter in place.
Looks better than a clump of axial-lead filters at least.
I posted a more-detailed description of this process with pictures on the CB Tricks forum a while back. At the time, I thought the rule on this forum was to use only thumbnail links for images. Since I had written it up with links to 600-pixel (or so) pics on the other forum, I never got a "round tuit" changing the links to thumbnails.
But it would seem that the old prohibition here against full-size images in a post has been changed, or eased up a bit at least.
I could port the posts from CB Tricks to this forum and post them here if there is any interest. And if using 500-to-600 pixel wide pics won't get me banned.
73
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss
Posts: 6,245
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 17, 2012 10:18:14 GMT -5
In the D201, that 3-by-40uf part has two sections wired together. Functionally, it's a two-section 80uf + 40uf. Using the 2-by-100uf capacitor is slight overkill for the 80uf side, and fair overkill for the 40uf side. The 500-Volt rating is NOT overkill in a Tram. It's a pain to drill out the rivets and remove the twist-lock saddle plate. But the mount holes for the saddle clamp that fits the 2-by-100 at 500V line up just fine. I put a ground lug with the inside teeth under one of the nuts under the new clamp to serve as the ground connection. The additional capacitance doesn't gain you much in performance, but doesn't hurt. In a Browning, the full-wave doubler circuit uses two filters in series to form the doubler circuit. As a result, one of the 450-Volt sections in that 3-section cap has only half the B+ voltage on it. Using a pair of single-section 250-Volt caps in series for the doubler leaves us needing only two more sections of 40uf each. The 2-by-50uf 500-Volt caps are overkill on the voltage rating, but not by all that much. Same mounting protocol. Drill out the rivets, remove the old twist-lock saddle plate and bolt down the saddle clamp to hold the new filter in place. Looks better than a clump of axial-lead filters at least. I posted a more-detailed description of this process with pictures on the CB Tricks forum a while back. At the time, I thought the rule on this forum was to use only thumbnail links for images. Since I had written it up with links to 600-pixel (or so) pics on the other forum, I never got a "round tuit" changing the links to thumbnails. But it would seem that the old prohibition here against full-size images in a post has been changed, or eased up a bit at least. I could port the posts from CB Tricks to this forum and post them here if there is any interest. And if using 500-to-600 pixel wide pics won't get me banned. 73 It's always great to have "how-to" posts with respect to our favorite old time radios. As long as the photos don't exceed the width of the page (which makes it blow out and all posts after it), they should be ok. But I'll let Scott make the final call on that one.
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Post by 2600 on Nov 18, 2012 1:05:25 GMT -5
Cool!
Yes, I size them to preserve the forum's page format.
73
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Post by gator7 on Nov 18, 2012 11:56:12 GMT -5
2600, Congrats on post 1000.
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Post by 2600 on Nov 18, 2012 23:26:19 GMT -5
Way cool! Just noticed.
Thanks and 73
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Post by cbrown on Nov 19, 2012 9:35:25 GMT -5
I could port the posts from CB Tricks to this forum and post them here if there is any interest. And if using 500-to-600 pixel wide pics won't get me banned. Speaking for myself, I would love to see it. I think it would be great to have here!
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Post by wildcat444 on Aug 8, 2019 19:56:55 GMT -5
I could port the posts from CB Tricks to this forum and post them here if there is any interest. And if using 500-to-600 pixel wide pics won't get me banned. Wow, this is exactly the info I am looking for. I have seen in some videos by Mikes Repair that he did this. He uses JJ brand 50 and 100 multi section caps for C5 and C624, but I only see them available in dual configuration so I was confused on what exactly to do. PLEASE, I would love to see the tutorial you made on doing this Nomad Radio!
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Post by 2600 on Aug 8, 2019 22:50:58 GMT -5
We use the JJ 2-section 500-Volt caps for Brownings and Trams.
But only for the 2-section filter. The 100uf x2 at 500 Volts has held up very well in the D201.
The single 10uf 450 Volt radial caps are too cheap to ignore. They get placed at the far end of the wire that leads to three sections of the 4-by-10uf 'can'. We remove the wire and place the cap at the wire's far end on the edge of the circuit board. On one section, the original cap's lug supports two 7-Watt wirewound resistors. Can't just tack the new cap onto this lug, the old part must be unhooked from the circuit. We solder a single-lug tie strop to the cap's saddle plate to support those two resistors as well as a single 10uf 450V radial cap. I suspect that using the 105-degree part for this has served to prevent them from failing prematurely.
We leave the old 4-section can in place once it's unhooked for appearances, as seen from above the deck.
73
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Post by wildcat444 on Aug 9, 2019 13:35:56 GMT -5
The single 10uf 450 Volt radial caps are too cheap to ignore. They get placed at the far end of the wire that leads to three sections of the 4-by-10uf 'can'. We remove the wire and place the cap at the wire's far end on the edge of the circuit board. Thanks! Makes sense about the new JJ dual 100/100uF 500v can replacing the original old 40/40/40uF can. I am trying to avoid adding a bunch of axial-lead 10uF filters in place of the original. In several Youtube videos, Mike's Radio Repair shows that he has replaced booth cans with a JJ cans. He mentioned on one video that he replaces the cans with a 100uf and a 50uF JJ can. I assume the 100uf is as you describe. What JJ would he be using for replacing the 10/10/10/10? I get wholesale pricing at CE so not worried about the cost of a JJ can vs saving by using separate 10uF caps.
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Post by grimace on Aug 9, 2019 16:21:30 GMT -5
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Post by wildcat444 on Aug 9, 2019 17:24:23 GMT -5
Yep, there's the hand made CE can. I've been wondering abut the JJs that Mikes using that are quite a bit cheaper. I guess he must be using a two section JJ 50/50 500V electrolytic and adding two single 50uF caps underneath. Or I suppose I could use the JJ 40/20/20/20µF 500V in place of the original 4X 10uF can. The values are between the original 10uF and the 50uF he said he is using there. I wonder how he's doing it...
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mattbee
Mudduck
Tram & Browning Enthusiast :)
Posts: 38
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Post by mattbee on Aug 12, 2019 13:41:12 GMT -5
I've been as of recent been using the JJ capacitors, since the twist-locks have shot up to close to $50.00 for the 40-40-40 450v ones. A cordless drill, a new mounting clamp, and couple stainless bolts, nuts, and lock washers, works perfectly !!
I've had no issues with the 50-50 500v JJ caps, and I then use a 47uf 500v single on the bottom side of the radio.
Works perfect !!
Both applications, on Trams & Brownings....
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Post by oldgeezer on Aug 12, 2019 17:29:43 GMT -5
Old capacitors may still work, but the high leakage does stress the power transformer at times. I always replace the electrolytic capacitors in my new to me tube radios. One example is a Regency Range Gain. No hum, but you could not touch the transformer for a second as it was so hot. After the new capacitors about 5 seconds before removing hand due to heat. Can cap is just slightly warm vs the very warm old can capacitor.
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Post by wildcat444 on Aug 12, 2019 22:43:51 GMT -5
I've been as of recent been using the JJ capacitors, since the twist-locks have shot up to close to $50.00 for the 40-40-40 450v ones. A cordless drill, a new mounting clamp, and couple stainless bolts, nuts, and lock washers, works perfectly !! I've had no issues with the 50-50 500v JJ caps, and I then use a 47uf 500v single on the bottom side of the radio. I have the 40/40/40uF worked out... I am trying to figure out what options I have for the 10/10/10/10uF. Of most interest is what Mike of Mike's Radio Repair is doing in his You Tube videos with JJ since he seems to make smart choices regarding these matters.
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mattbee
Mudduck
Tram & Browning Enthusiast :)
Posts: 38
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Post by mattbee on Aug 16, 2019 6:36:42 GMT -5
Wildcat.....
I've been using the 16uf 16uf 500v ones in place of the 10uf twist lock.
I then use two 16uf 450v ones zip tied neatly together under the radio to pick-up the other two sections.
The 10, 10, 10, 10 uf 450v twist lock caps are $31.45, while the J&J 16, 16 uf 500v mult-section cap is $8.95, then add two 16uf 450v caps for the other two sections, it's still way more price effective for sure !
Customers with Trams & Brownings who I've restored radios for can't believe that TWO mult-section can capacitors that are needed while doing a restore correctly cost close $100.00 shipped to me!!
Throw in a bad relay, a bad tube or two or three, a bad IF can, heck it's quite easy to have $175.00-$200.00 dollars on just three or four parts just to get started.
Enjoy the weekend !!
Mattbee
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air1
Ratchet Jaw
Posts: 69
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Post by air1 on Aug 16, 2019 10:51:46 GMT -5
I've been using JJ 500v,40/20/20/20uf and JJ 500v,100/100uf caps with good success the last few years. They are under $30.00 for both.
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