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Post by Night Ranger on Nov 4, 2014 14:09:50 GMT -5
BBI amp builder claims 4000 watts output while plugged up to a 110 volt AC outlet with a six way coupler between the amp and the wall outlet. Me thinks he's been smoking crack. www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQpXDHESokNight Ranger
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 5, 2014 7:37:02 GMT -5
BBI amp builder claims 4000 watts output while plugged up to a 110 volt AC outlet with a six way coupler between the amp and the wall outlet. Me thinks he's been smoking crack. www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQpXDHESokNight Ranger Math is evidently not a requirement when coming up with pie-in-the-sky power ratings. After watching the video, the amp looks impressive and if I weren't an engineer I'd be totally blown away with the power out running on 110V. BUT, unfortunately, I am an engineer and one of the first things they teach you is that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply changes states. You simply cannot put out more RF power than you consume from your power source. Assuming his power source is your typical residential 120V circuit, it's good for 20 amps (based on the style of the outlet). Further, most power strips are usually only good for 15 amps max. But at 20 amps, and 120 volts, that means a total power consumption of 2400 watts before the breaker trips. So how can an amp put out 4000 watts of RF while only consuming 2400 (or less)? I'm not even going to get into losses and amplifier efficiency. We're touching on the realm of perpetual motion here..... Here's a link to a similar amp design using the same type of 8 transistors running at 50V. It's rated at ~1200watt output, while drawing 25 amps at 110 Volts. www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=ALS-1300
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Post by Night Ranger on Nov 5, 2014 9:02:23 GMT -5
BBI amp builder claims 4000 watts output while plugged up to a 110 volt AC outlet with a six way coupler between the amp and the wall outlet. Me thinks he's been smoking crack. www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQpXDHESokNight Ranger Math is evidently not a requirement when coming up with pie-in-the-sky power ratings. After watching the video, the amp looks impressive and if I weren't an engineer I'd be totally blown away with the power out running on 110V. BUT, unfortunately, I am an engineer and one of the first things they teach you is that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply changes states. You simply cannot put out more RF power than you consume from your power source. Assuming his power source is your typical residential 120V circuit, it's good for 20 amps (based on the style of the outlet). Further, most power strips are usually only good for 15 amps max. But at 20 amps, and 120 volts, that means a total power consumption of 2400 watts before the breaker trips. So how can an amp put out 4000 watts of RF while only consuming 2400 (or less)? I'm not even going to get into losses and amplifier efficiency. We're touching on the realm of perpetual motion here..... Here's a link to a similar amp design using the same type of 8 transistors running at 50V. It's rated at ~1200watt output, while drawing 25 amps at 110 Volts. www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=ALS-1300If you look closely at the video he appears to be running the two pill driver and possibly the radio off of the same six way coupler. I tried to run my Henry 2KD-5 with two 3-500z tubes off a 110 volt outlet once. I thought I could tune it lightly and squeak by since I did not have a 220 outlet available at the time, and installing a 220 outlet at that location was not an option. I had to replace the wall outlet receptacle, because the plastic housing had melted on one side. Did you notice the comments section on his video was disabled? I just noticed something else on the video. The tops of the transistors are blacked out. It looks like he painted them or used a Sharpie pen to cover up the part numbers. More proof of CB shenanigans. Also at time 4:17 on the video he does a close up of the six way coupler. If you look to the right there is another five or six way power strip that may be plugged in to the six way coupler. ..Sniff...sniff....sniff.....I smell smoke! ; ) Night Ranger
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Post by BBB on Nov 5, 2014 10:31:25 GMT -5
Haha, that guy. He is so busted. Mauldroppers rips him a new one all the time.
There is a reason he doesn't let anyone comment on his videos ^^^
He should stop trying to be someone he's not.
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Post by cbrown on Nov 5, 2014 10:51:13 GMT -5
I'm amazed that a CB amp builder is inflating the output numbers. Seriously.
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 5, 2014 11:23:48 GMT -5
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 5, 2014 11:35:34 GMT -5
Math is evidently not a requirement when coming up with pie-in-the-sky power ratings. After watching the video, the amp looks impressive and if I weren't an engineer I'd be totally blown away with the power out running on 110V. BUT, unfortunately, I am an engineer and one of the first things they teach you is that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply changes states. You simply cannot put out more RF power than you consume from your power source. Assuming his power source is your typical residential 120V circuit, it's good for 20 amps (based on the style of the outlet). Further, most power strips are usually only good for 15 amps max. But at 20 amps, and 120 volts, that means a total power consumption of 2400 watts before the breaker trips. So how can an amp put out 4000 watts of RF while only consuming 2400 (or less)? I'm not even going to get into losses and amplifier efficiency. We're touching on the realm of perpetual motion here..... Here's a link to a similar amp design using the same type of 8 transistors running at 50V. It's rated at ~1200watt output, while drawing 25 amps at 110 Volts. www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=ALS-1300If you look closely at the video he appears to be running the two pill driver and possibly the radio off of the same six way coupler. I tried to run my Henry 2KD-5 with two 3-500z tubes off a 110 volt outlet once. I thought I could tune it lightly and squeak by since I did not have a 220 outlet available at the time, and installing a 220 outlet at that location was not an option. I had to replace the wall outlet receptacle, because the plastic housing had melted on one side. Did you notice the comments section on his video was disabled? I just noticed something else on the video. The tops of the transistors are blacked out. It looks like he painted them or used a Sharpie pen to cover up the part numbers. More proof of CB shenanigans. Also at time 4:17 on the video he does a close up of the six way coupler. If you look to the right there is another five or six way power strip that may be plugged in to the six way coupler. ..Sniff...sniff....sniff.....I smell smoke! I noticed that too. Interestingly, they look a heck of a lot like 2879-type "pills". The big power 50V FET's look a bit different. I'm guessing they're MRF150's. They're not rated much higher in power ratings than 2SC2879's. So that probably explains why he blacked out the numbers. Too many people would look up the specs and do a "WTF?". But he actually seems to be promoting the fact that you can get all that power on a measly 110V outlet, seemingly unaware of or deliberately ignoring the laws of physics. But hey, he might have invented something earth shattering. The first amp to produce more power than it consumes. Quick, call Sheldon Cooper!
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 5, 2014 11:52:39 GMT -5
"He should stop trying to be someone he's not". The phrase that will live in infamy.....
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Post by Night Ranger on Nov 5, 2014 13:22:19 GMT -5
If you look closely at the video he appears to be running the two pill driver and possibly the radio off of the same six way coupler. I tried to run my Henry 2KD-5 with two 3-500z tubes off a 110 volt outlet once. I thought I could tune it lightly and squeak by since I did not have a 220 outlet available at the time, and installing a 220 outlet at that location was not an option. I had to replace the wall outlet receptacle, because the plastic housing had melted on one side. Did you notice the comments section on his video was disabled? I just noticed something else on the video. The tops of the transistors are blacked out. It looks like he painted them or used a Sharpie pen to cover up the part numbers. More proof of CB shenanigans. Also at time 4:17 on the video he does a close up of the six way coupler. If you look to the right there is another five or six way power strip that may be plugged in to the six way coupler. ..Sniff...sniff....sniff.....I smell smoke! I noticed that too. Interestingly, they look a heck of a lot like 2879-type "pills". The big power 50V FET's look a bit different. I'm guessing they're MRF150's. They're not rated much higher in power ratings than 2SC2879's. So that probably explains why he blacked out the numbers. Too many people would look up the specs and do a "WTF?". But he actually seems to be promoting the fact that you can get all that power on a measly 110V outlet, seemingly unaware of or deliberately ignoring the laws of physics. But hey, he might have invented something earth shattering. The first amp to produce more power than it consumes. Quick, call Sheldon Cooper! It's the perpetual motion CB amplifier! I stopped in Walmart on my lunch break. I looked at all the six outlet wall mount spike protectors they had in stock. All of them that showed a power rating on the box were rated at 110/120v @ 15 amps. 120 volts * 15 amps equals 1800 watts AC input. Assuming class C and ignoring all other circuit losses or equipment drains (like the CB radio and the driver amp); 1800 watts * 70% efficiency equals 1260 watts. Notice at time index 4:16 his Bird meter has non-standard switches on the right side, so he has definitely been in it. Maybe he thinks peaking his radio includes turning the little screws in the Bird watt meter to make it put out more! Night Ranger
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Post by Night Ranger on Nov 5, 2014 14:55:21 GMT -5
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 5, 2014 22:38:44 GMT -5
I guess we're not the only people who have a problem with his power claims............ So I guess I'd better cancel my call into the Nobel prize committee......
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Post by BBB on Nov 9, 2014 10:28:09 GMT -5
His Bird meters have been modified with a BS wattage mod. See the little switches and extra circuitry... easy to see in the beginning of the video. He never shows his stuff on a spectrum analyzer because of the sh!tty splatter ghost watts his crap produces. Stay far away from BBi, but hey on the surface, he seems to be having fun
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 9, 2014 18:22:57 GMT -5
His Bird meters have been modified with a BS wattage mod. See the little switches and extra circuitry... easy to see in the beginning of the video. He never shows his stuff on a spectrum analyzer because of the sh!tty splatter ghost watts his crap produces. Stay far away from BBi, but hey on the surface, he seems to be having fun There are too many BS artists out there in the CB field. They are always taking advantage of the technical novices out there to turn a fast buck. The worst thing is when the buyers vehemently defend the BS in the face of those who know better, and can demonstrate it. They are afraid to face the possibility that they'd been duped, which would reflect poorly on their judgement. And no one wants that.
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Post by Marc on Nov 10, 2014 14:37:55 GMT -5
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 10, 2014 17:06:21 GMT -5
If that's truly the case, then it looks like it's close to 100 watts more potent per device, than the 12V 2SC-2879. This means that an 8 "pill" setup, should be able to deliver around an honest 2200 watts..... But nowhere near 4000. Another interesting note, the company that makes these devices is listed as being from Hatfield Pa., which is only a stone's throw from me. I may have to look into this company a bit more.......
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Post by Marc on Nov 10, 2014 17:16:53 GMT -5
They make about 5 or 6 in that family. the 250 is the top one. Others go as low as around 50 watts or so .
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Post by BBB on Nov 10, 2014 17:56:58 GMT -5
If that's truly the case, then it looks like it's close to 100 watts more potent per device, than the 12V 2SC-2879. This means that an 8 "pill" setup, should be able to deliver around an honest 2200 watts..... But nowhere near 4000. Another interesting note, the company that makes these devices is listed as being from Hatfield Pa., which is only a stone's throw from me. I may have to look into this company a bit more....... I wonder if they supply Amplifier Research in Franconia. They make REAL linear amplifiers over there $$$$$.$$. www.arworld.us/html/12100_rf_amplifier.aspI'll take one of these since it will fit in the corner of the shack: www.arworld.us/html/18200.asp?id=943
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 10, 2014 18:19:21 GMT -5
If that's truly the case, then it looks like it's close to 100 watts more potent per device, than the 12V 2SC-2879. This means that an 8 "pill" setup, should be able to deliver around an honest 2200 watts..... But nowhere near 4000. Another interesting note, the company that makes these devices is listed as being from Hatfield Pa., which is only a stone's throw from me. I may have to look into this company a bit more....... I wonder if they supply Amplifier Research in Franconia. They make REAL linear amplifiers over there $$$$$.$$. www.arworld.us/html/12100_rf_amplifier.aspI'll take one of these since it will fit in the corner of the shack: www.arworld.us/html/18200.asp?id=943Those amps are majorly expensive because they are made to have flat gain across a very wide band of frequencies. These amps are mostly used for testing purposes. I had one similar to their low power amps at work. It was only a 3 watt output, but it was good from 100 Khz to 1000 Mhz with a flatness of +/- 1db over the entire range. It cost somewhere around $500, if I remember right. When it says "Lab quality", prepare to pay......
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Post by ab5ni on Nov 14, 2014 7:29:45 GMT -5
To quote South Park, I call "Shenanigans" on the builder! As SB stated, there is just no getting around the conservation of energy law. Not happening! Out of curiosity, I'm starting to wonder how much he charges for one of these "amps." I'm going to guess $5000.00 or more. One would think that somebody who got duped by him would have gotten in touch with the Federal Trade Commission by now. Well, maybe they did, but the FTC probably doesn't have the man-power to do anything about that guy. They could at least call their local BBB and complain so others can look him up. Going to do a search on BBI and see what turns up . 73, Randy AB5NI
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 14, 2014 8:17:05 GMT -5
To quote South Park, I call "Shenanigans" on the builder! As SB stated, there is just no getting around the conservation of energy law. Not happening! Out of curiosity, I'm starting to wonder how much he charges for one of these "amps." I'm going to guess $5000.00 or more. One would think that somebody who got duped by him would have gotten in touch with the Federal Trade Commission by now. Well, maybe they did, but the FTC probably doesn't have the man-power to do anything about that guy. They could at least call their local BBB and complain so others can look him up. Going to do a search on BBI and see what turns up . No, these garage shop amp builders don't charge quite that much for their products, although the prices are rising due to the cost of the Toshiba transistors. It's approaching investment level. I could probably sell my Texas Star amp, that I bought back in the 80's, for more than I paid for it......
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Post by Night Ranger on Nov 14, 2014 8:50:36 GMT -5
To quote South Park, I call "Shenanigans" on the builder! As SB stated, there is just no getting around the conservation of energy law. Not happening! Out of curiosity, I'm starting to wonder how much he charges for one of these "amps." I'm going to guess $5000.00 or more. One would think that somebody who got duped by him would have gotten in touch with the Federal Trade Commission by now. Well, maybe they did, but the FTC probably doesn't have the man-power to do anything about that guy. They could at least call their local BBB and complain so others can look him up. Going to do a search on BBI and see what turns up . No, these garage shop amp builders don't charge quite that much for their products, although the prices are rising due to the cost of the Toshiba transistors. It's approaching investment level. I could probably sell my Texas Star amp, that I bought back in the 80's, for more than I paid for it...... Yep. The 2sc2879a is at $40 each at rfparts.com. Some of the builders are switching to the cheaper DEI 2sc2879 equivalent. Me personally, I'll stick with my $3 22jg6a tubes and my $7 to $12 6km6 tubes. With the recent rise in the U.S. dollar versus the Japanese Yen you may see the Toshiba transistor prices along with some of the Japanese ham radio gear begin to fall in price though. US Dollar versus Japanese Yen exchange rate chart www.advfn.com/exchanges/FX/USDJPY/chartNight Ranger
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Post by cbrown on Nov 14, 2014 10:24:03 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, I'm starting to wonder how much he charges for one of these "amps." I'm going to guess $5000.00 or more. Price list: bbiamps.com/index.php/services/
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 14, 2014 10:47:13 GMT -5
No, these garage shop amp builders don't charge quite that much for their products, although the prices are rising due to the cost of the Toshiba transistors. It's approaching investment level. I could probably sell my Texas Star amp, that I bought back in the 80's, for more than I paid for it...... Yep. The 2sc2879a is at $40 each at rfparts.com. Some of the builders are switching to the cheaper DEI 2sc2879 equivalent. Me personally, I'll stick with my $3 22jg6a tubes and my $7 to $12 6km6 tubes. With the recent rise in the U.S. dollar versus the Japanese Yen you may see the Toshiba transistor prices along with some of the Japanese ham radio gear begin to fall in price though. US Dollar versus Japanese Yen exchange rate chart www.advfn.com/exchanges/FX/USDJPY/chartNight Ranger I can understand the rapid rise of the original discontinued Toshiba part. That whole supply/demand thing, similar to what we're seeing with tubes. But if the 2879a part is supposedly the "new" RoHS compliant part, I would think there would be sufficient supply to quell the crazy rise in price. Supposedly the DEI parts have reliability issues, which makes their cheaper price of questionable value.
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Post by Night Ranger on Nov 14, 2014 12:37:37 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, I'm starting to wonder how much he charges for one of these "amps." I'm going to guess $5000.00 or more. Price list: bbiamps.com/index.php/services/You could buy a brand new Ameritron AL-82 (dual 3-500zg) or AL-1500 (single 3cx1500a7) for what he wants for some of those amps, and you would get a better amp. Night Ranger
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 14, 2014 12:53:14 GMT -5
You could buy a brand new Ameritron AL-82 (dual 3-500zg) or AL-1500 (single 3cx1500a7) for what he wants for some of those amps, and you would get a better amp. Night Ranger Well that's certainly true. But those amps won't put out 4000 watts on a Dosy (or modified Bird) meter, while running on a simple 110V circuit.
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Post by Night Ranger on Nov 14, 2014 12:56:40 GMT -5
You could buy a brand new Ameritron AL-82 (dual 3-500zg) or AL-1500 (single 3cx1500a7) for what he wants for some of those amps, and you would get a better amp. Night Ranger Well that's certainly true. But those amps won't put out 4000 watts on a Dosy (or modified Bird) meter, while running on a simple 110V circuit. True, but they would set the six outlet power strip on fire and trip the circuit breaker trying to. Night Ranger
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Post by ab5ni on Nov 14, 2014 14:40:44 GMT -5
You could buy a brand new Ameritron AL-82 (dual 3-500zg) or AL-1500 (single 3cx1500a7) for what he wants for some of those amps, and you would get a better amp. Night Ranger Well that's certainly true. But those amps won't put out 4000 watts on a Dosy (or modified Bird) meter, while running on a simple 110V circuit. Agreed, NR. Not only that, but if you know an X-ray-machine/MRI tech, a lot of those machines use a pair of 8877's (aka 3cx1500a7) to produce x rays and strong magnetic fields. They are pulled and replaced on schedule, and they most definitely have enough life in them to be used in an amp. I know one ham that has two pulled 8877's, and he's still using the first tube at the maximum legal limit on the ham bands. That tube has been in constant, everyday service for 10 years now. If a tube is treated correctly, they will last a long while. Best to tune up with a pulser or two-tone generator for a good linearity. 73, Randy AB5NI
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Post by ab5ni on Nov 14, 2014 14:53:05 GMT -5
That was an awesome video . 73, Randy AB5NI
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Post by ab5ni on Nov 14, 2014 15:07:58 GMT -5
To quote South Park, I call "Shenanigans" on the builder! As SB stated, there is just no getting around the conservation of energy law. Not happening! Out of curiosity, I'm starting to wonder how much he charges for one of these "amps." I'm going to guess $5000.00 or more. One would think that somebody who got duped by him would have gotten in touch with the Federal Trade Commission by now. Well, maybe they did, but the FTC probably doesn't have the man-power to do anything about that guy. They could at least call their local BBB and complain so others can look him up. Going to do a search on BBI and see what turns up . No, these garage shop amp builders don't charge quite that much for their products, although the prices are rising due to the cost of the Toshiba transistors. It's approaching investment level. I could probably sell my Texas Star amp, that I bought back in the 80's, for more than I paid for it...... Ah. Okay. Thanks for the info, SB. Don't really follow transistorized, linear-amplifier construction practices too much. Personally, I'd only use these devices in automotive vehicles, where you don't really have to worry about finding a current source to power the things. I'm a "tube final" guy for base amplification. Makes the most sense to me and seems to be the most bang for the buck. The Texas Star series of amplifiers were also very popular in this neck of woods, by the way. 73, Randy AB5NI
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Post by Sandbagger on Nov 14, 2014 17:22:15 GMT -5
No, these garage shop amp builders don't charge quite that much for their products, although the prices are rising due to the cost of the Toshiba transistors. It's approaching investment level. I could probably sell my Texas Star amp, that I bought back in the 80's, for more than I paid for it...... Ah. Okay. Thanks for the info, SB. Don't really follow transistorized, linear-amplifier construction practices too much. Personally, I'd only use these devices in automotive vehicles, where you don't really have to worry about finding a current source to power the things. I'm a "tube final" guy for base amplification. Makes the most sense to me and seems to be the most bang for the buck. The Texas Star series of amplifiers was also very popular in this neck of woods, by the way. I like the Texas Star amps more so than the so-called "competition" amps that the garage shop guys build, because they are biased class AB which results in far less splatter and you can actually use it on SSB without sounding all raspy. Although I am amazed at the spectral purity of that little 2 transistor Dave Made amp I use. It's actually cleaner than the old single tube Wawasee amp I was going to use on the base. Add in a little biasing, and it's a real nice little amp good for a quick 10db boost in signal.
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