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Post by BBB on Apr 30, 2016 19:07:30 GMT -5
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on Apr 30, 2016 20:56:19 GMT -5
I'm seriously thinking about penning a letter to the FCC inquiring about the legality of this system which from where I am standing, is in clear violation of part 95 for class D citizens band radio spectrum usage. Power output, I'm betting, is also in excess of the 4 watt requirement, in order to be able to activate and power those transponders. Something like this should be legal on the class "C" frequencies, so all they would have to do is drop them down to 27.095, and they'd be good to go.....
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Post by No Streak on May 1, 2016 8:51:20 GMT -5
I get that Train signal on multiple frequencies it totally sucks donkey! I highly doubt that the FCC will do anything about it. Because of fact it is a safety issue for the trains. The need of the many outweigh the needs of the few!
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Post by No Streak on May 1, 2016 8:55:49 GMT -5
Hey you guys are always welcome at Channel 15! No trains on that channel ,because we use to be on that channel like 10 years ago and that's why we left.
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 1, 2016 11:34:54 GMT -5
I get that Train signal on multiple frequencies it totally sucks donkey! I highly doubt that the FCC will do anything about it. Because of fact it is a safety issue for the trains. The need of the many outweigh the needs of the few! Well, technically, this train system is in clear violation of the intent and purpose of the class D CB service. It's clearly violating FCC rules for power, transmission type and operating practice. But realistically and politically, it's more likely that this will never get looked at because the FCC doesn't care about the CB service, and it would be ironic for radio ops who bend a break many FCC rules to be complaining about another rule breaker. But it wouldn't hurt to try, just to see what kind of response is given.
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Post by No Streak on May 1, 2016 11:38:56 GMT -5
I get that Train signal on multiple frequencies it totally sucks donkey! I highly doubt that the FCC will do anything about it. Because of fact it is a safety issue for the trains. The need of the many outweigh the needs of the few! Well, technically, this train system is in clear violation of the intent and purpose of the class D CB service. It's clearly violating FCC rules for power, transmission type and operating practice. But realistically and politically, it's more likely that this will never get looked at because the FCC doesn't care about the CB service, and it would be ironic for radio ops who bend a break many FCC rules to be complaining about another rule breaker. But it wouldn't hurt to try, just to see what kind of response is given. The sad thing is that BIG money can totally change the way laws play out,and what is acceptable in the governing body.
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 1, 2016 11:48:30 GMT -5
Hey you guys are always welcome at Channel 15! No trains on that channel ,because we use to be on that channel like 10 years ago and that's why we left. Well, fortunately for most of our group in the greater PP-town area, there are no passenger rail systems, and only one major freight line within a couple of miles. I do hear the trains when I'm on my way to work, as I do cross over a passenger line. At least it lets me know when they are close by . So there is no huge push for us to move channels just yet. It's going to be a tough thing to do for a few reasons. CRR has gotten rather well known and we have guys checking in from skipland (when it's running) who know to look for us on channel 13. We also have those less than 23 channels radios which would need to be crystalled for whatever channel we'd decide to move to. Then there is the issue of picking a channel to go to. Channel 17 seems to have a spur from the train system, so that would be out. We have (had?) locals on 1, 14, 15 and 21. Channel 16 we'd like to keep for classic SSB use. Channel 6 and 11 are the toilet bowl channels, and when the skip runs, even in the slightest, the all-knobs-to-the-right crew will splatter several channels on either side of those two channels. 18 and 20 might be subject to bleed from 19, for those guys near major highways. So that pretty much leaves 2,3, maybe 4, 12, 22, and 23.
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Post by BBB on May 1, 2016 14:26:19 GMT -5
I don't think there is much traffic on CH 21 anymore and I have radios already crystallized for 27.215 . This train RF system was obviously developed in Europe and they just copied it here part for part in fine Chinese fashion. That would be great if you authored an inquiry letter to the FCC. Do you you think they might not be aware of these devices? Maybe we could get some power ratings on the devices from the manufacturer? I bet we could "round-up" about 50+ signatures from concerned HAM and citizen operators in a week or two if needed, but as you said, would that then put a target on our backs. Hmmm. My guess is that Amtrak would instantly cry about the monetary outlay it would take to replace the hardware. If the FCC shuns this, then we really know they don't give a **** about us. 1500 watt amps for all!!
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 1, 2016 14:32:08 GMT -5
I don't think there is much traffic on CH 21 anymore and I have radios already crystallized for 27.215 . This train RF system was obviously developed in Europe and they just copied it here part for part in fine Chinese fashion. That would be great if you authored an inquiry letter to the FCC. Do you you think they might not be aware of these devices? Maybe we could get some power ratings on the devices from the manufacturer? I bet we could "round-up" about 50+ signatures from concerned HAM and citizen operators in a week or two if needed, but as you said, would that then put a target on our backs. Hmmm. My guess is that Amtrak would instantly cry about the monetary outlay it would take to replace the hardware. If the FCC shuns this, then we really know they don't give a **** about us. 1500 watt amps for all!! Well, the way the world works is that there is one set of rules for the elites, and another set of rules for the rest of us. Don't you dare think about running a 50 watt radio on 11 meters, but it's perfectly fine if the government approves a non-authorized emission on the same band..... And there is no way we'd go back to channel 21, unless I heard from a reliable source that Cousin Brucie either sold out or died. Too much potential for trouble there. I'd rather deal with Amtrak
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Post by MonkeyMan on May 1, 2016 15:20:09 GMT -5
I don't think there is much traffic on CH 21 anymore and I have radios already crystallized for 27.215 . This train RF system was obviously developed in Europe and they just copied it here part for part in fine Chinese fashion. That would be great if you authored an inquiry letter to the FCC. Do you you think they might not be aware of these devices? Maybe we could get some power ratings on the devices from the manufacturer? I bet we could "round-up" about 50+ signatures from concerned HAM and citizen operators in a week or two if needed, but as you said, would that then put a target on our backs. Hmmm. My guess is that Amtrak would instantly cry about the monetary outlay it would take to replace the hardware. If the FCC shuns this, then we really know they don't give a **** about us.  1500 watt amps for all!! Well, the way the world works is that there is one set of rules for the elites, and another set of rules for the rest of us. Don't you dare think about running a 50 watt radio on 11 meters, but it's perfectly fine if the government approves a non-authorized emission on the same band..... And there is no way we'd go back to channel 21, unless I heard from a reliable source that Cousin Brucie either sold out or died. Too much potential for trouble there. I'd rather deal with Amtrak Maybe if you were extra nice he'd let you talk on 21.
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 1, 2016 17:09:52 GMT -5
Well, the way the world works is that there is one set of rules for the elites, and another set of rules for the rest of us. Don't you dare think about running a 50 watt radio on 11 meters, but it's perfectly fine if the government approves a non-authorized emission on the same band..... And there is no way we'd go back to channel 21, unless I heard from a reliable source that Cousin Brucie either sold out or died. Too much potential for trouble there. I'd rather deal with Amtrak Maybe if you were extra nice he'd let you talk on 21. Maybe, but 21 is his channel, and we like having our own.
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Post by No Streak on May 1, 2016 20:51:43 GMT -5
Maybe if you were extra nice he'd let you talk on 21. Maybe, but 21 is his channel, and we like having our own. Hmmm, him sound like he some kind of Channel Master! Or Master Chief!
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 1, 2016 21:13:23 GMT -5
Maybe, but 21 is his channel, and we like having our own. Hmmm, him sound like he some kind of Channel Master! Or Master Chief! It's "ol' Zero-Five's" arch nemesis.
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Post by No Streak on May 2, 2016 4:47:25 GMT -5
I know it is truly a pain in the butt to change channels. Funny thing I use to talk on CH15 years prior lol. It took awhile for everybody to get on board with the program.
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Post by No Streak on May 2, 2016 4:51:33 GMT -5
Maybe a letter would show them something needs to be looked at usually Ham operators can get things moving if it interferes with the area they run at in 10 meter or other frequency.
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 2, 2016 6:20:45 GMT -5
Maybe a letter would show them something needs to be looked at usually Ham operators can get things moving if it interferes with the area they run at in 10 meter or other frequency. Well, that's where the problem comes in. Yes, if it were on 10 meters or some other ham frequency, the hue and cry from the ham community and the ARRL would force the FCC to act in some fashion. But the CB band no longer provides the FCC with revenue, and has been pretty much written off as the last vestige of a 40 year old social fad with those remaining, not being especially observant of the rules. In other words, the CB band is a thorn in the FCC's backside, so I'm not all that confident that they will respond favorably. But I am putting the wheels in motion. I have a ham friend who has had direct contact with the FCC on enforcement issues, and I'm looking to get in touch with his FCC contact for at least an informal opinion on the situation.
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Post by No Streak on May 2, 2016 6:26:11 GMT -5
Maybe a letter would show them something needs to be looked at usually Ham operators can get things moving if it interferes with the area they run at in 10 meter or other frequency. Well, that's where the problem comes in. Yes, if it were on 10 meters or some other ham frequency, the hue and cry from the ham community and the ARRL would force the FCC to act in some fashion. But the CB band no longer provides the FCC with revenue, and has been pretty much written off as the last vestige of a 40 year old social fad with those remaining, not being especially observant of the rules. In other words, the CB band is a thorn in the FCC's backside, so I'm not all that confident that they will respond favorably. But I am putting the wheels in motion. I have a ham friend who has had direct contact with the FCC on enforcement issues, and I'm looking to get in touch with his FCC contact for at least an informal opinion on the situation. Well you are heading in right direction, and if we are getting interference on 11 meters I'm sure other bands are being affected as well. Assuming that other people on different frequencies don't know what it's coming from in the first place.
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Post by spitfire441 on May 2, 2016 6:52:25 GMT -5
Maybe, but 21 is his channel, and we like having our own. Hmmm, him sound like he some kind of Channel Master! Or Master Chief! ...more like master baiter.....and he is still there, heard him talking last week to Top Gun.
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Post by No Streak on May 2, 2016 7:08:11 GMT -5
Hmmm, him sound like he some kind of Channel Master! Or Master Chief! ...more like master baiter.....and he is still there, heard him talking last week to Top Gun. Well I was thinking that but trying to keep the forum clean! It's funny you can't stand some people when your dealing with them on a daily basis. And all the craziness they bring each day, but when they are gone you miss the crazy things they did to a point! I guess that is why we sit behind the microphone and wait for the magic to happen. That's what I love about CB radio with the right people to bounce off of you can have the best time of your life and memories you'll never forget! As Zero Five probably would say (If Your not first your last ) Ricky Bobble quote!
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Post by Night Ranger on May 2, 2016 9:48:19 GMT -5
I initially posted just how dumb using CB frequency was on the part of Seimens, but considering how that could be abused I think I'll contact CERT.org instead. Night Ranger
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 2, 2016 11:52:21 GMT -5
I initially posted just how dumb using CB frequency was on the part of Seimens, but considering how that could be abused I think I'll contact CERT.org instead. Night Ranger I understand the system was designed in Europe, where I'm guessing 27.115 isn't part of their frequency spectrum. But how do those who design these types of systems do so without due regard for the countries that they plan on selling them to and for the potential for interference that results if careful frequency planning isn't carried out? How much more difficult would it have been to simply move it to 27.095, or 27.145 Mhz, where it falls on a class C frequency, where this type of operation would be legal? Of course I could put on my Bluebird conspiracy hat and postulate that the FCC is secretly giving the wink and nod to anyone who deploys devices which will trash the CB band out of existence.
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 2, 2016 13:06:56 GMT -5
I know it is truly a pain in the butt to change channels. Funny thing I use to talk on CH15 years prior lol. It took awhile for everybody to get on board with the program. Just out of curiosity, why did you guys leave channel 15?
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Post by No Streak on May 2, 2016 13:33:00 GMT -5
I know it is truly a pain in the butt to change channels. Funny thing I use to talk on CH15 years prior lol. It took awhile for everybody to get on board with the program. Just out of curiosity, why did you guys leave channel 15? Wow, had to think about that it was in late 80's or early 90's. Well one I remember we were fighting with a West Chester group on the same channel. Young people like myself at the time that was one problem and second it really fell apart some that I would call the core members died or left. We moved to your home Channel 21 but that didn't work out either! I finally got accepted on Channel 3,and stayed there till I was harped on by the Channel Master at the time for holding up the channel for long periods of time. Myself and few friends started a new a channel on 268650, and found most of the people that were complaining about us were down there listening because when I left the action that was on the channel did too! Now to be clear I was no Zero-Five at all, maybe alittle smush smush going on keydown with one of my friends. But no crazy power at all, I would always bring some interesting conversations to our channel lets just say that I only wish I would have taped most of them. Because they were pretty darn funny to say the least!
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Post by MonkeyMan on May 2, 2016 13:35:01 GMT -5
I used to work for Siemens. I'll call the boss and get this straightened right out.
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 2, 2016 20:02:50 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, why did you guys leave channel 15? Wow, had to think about that it was in late 80's or early 90's. Well one I remember we were fighting with a West Chester group on the same channel. Young people like myself at the time that was one problem and second it really fell apart some that I would call the core members died or left. We moved to your home Channel 21 but that didn't work out either! I finally got accepted on Channel 3,and stayed there till I was harped on by the Channel Master at the time for holding up the channel for long periods of time. Myself and few friends started a new a channel on 268650, and found most of the people that were complaining about us were down there listening because when I left the action that was on the channel did too! Now to be clear I was no Zero-Five at all, maybe alittle smush smush going on keydown with one of my friends. But no crazy power at all, I would always bring some interesting conversations to our channel lets just say that I only wish I would have taped most of them. Because they were pretty darn funny to say the least! Well, after being part of several channel groups stretching from the time I was a teenager, to a full fledged old fart, I have to say that the one true constant on the CB band is drama. Whether it's inter-channel or channel-channel, it's all the same. Some people just can't/won't get along with other people, and the resulting arguments, agitation, threats, jamming, spying, back stabbing and what not feeds into the human need for drama. It's not enough to simply ignore those we don't get along with, we have to monitor to make sure they aren't talking behind our backs. And it goes both ways. As much as I sometimes miss "ol Zero-Five", the drama in this area took a sharp nose-dive right after he moved away.....
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Post by BBB on May 3, 2016 8:22:46 GMT -5
" It's not enough to simply ignore those we don't get along with, we have to monitor to make sure they aren't talking behind our backs. " Well said Sandbagger and so true to this very day. I try to keep my opinions off the air, but the due to the social nature of the hobby and all its facets, including the interweb, things find there way OTA anyway
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 3, 2016 9:01:40 GMT -5
" It's not enough to simply ignore those we don't get along with, we have to monitor to make sure they aren't talking behind our backs. " Well said Sandbagger and so true to this very day. I try to keep my opinions off the air, but the due to the social nature of the hobby and all its facets, including the interweb, things find there way OTA anyway You really do have to be careful of what you say OTA (or on social media). Not just for those who you are "at war" with, but people you are friends with as well. There are too many people out there who are sensitive and get hurt feelings if they find out that something even mildly critical was said about them and, when taken out of context, can often sound worse than it really was. Yea, it was kind of funny back in the day, the lengths we all went through to exchange more private comments over the air rather than taking the time to get up and call someone on the phone (many of us hated using the phone, or were restricted from usage of it by our parents) when criticisms of other people sprung up. We'd sneak off to out of band channels, developed "secret" codes, dropped power to milliwatt levels, running USB in the LSB bandwidth, and all sorts of tricks, just to restrict who could sandbag on the conversation. But no matter what tricks you did, word would almost always get back to the person you were criticizing, and the retaliations would begin in earnest. home.ptd.net/~n3cvj/sandbaggers.mp3
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Post by No Streak on May 3, 2016 11:53:54 GMT -5
" It's not enough to simply ignore those we don't get along with, we have to monitor to make sure they aren't talking behind our backs. " Well said Sandbagger and so true to this very day. I try to keep my opinions off the air, but the due to the social nature of the hobby and all its facets, including the interweb, things find there way OTA anyway You really do have to be careful of what you say OTA (or on social media). Not just for those who you are "at war" with, but people you are friends with as well. There are too many people out there who are sensitive and get hurt feelings if they find out that something even mildly critical was said about them and, when taken out of context, can often sound worse than it really was. Yea, it was kind of funny back in the day, the lengths we all went through to exchange more private comments over the air rather than taking the time to get up and call someone on the phone (many of us hated using the phone, or were restricted from usage of it by our parents) when criticisms of other people sprung up. We'd sneak off to out of band channels, developed "secret" codes, dropped power to milliwatt levels, running USB in the LSB bandwidth, and all sorts of tricks, just to restrict who could sandbag on the conversation. But no matter what tricks you did, word would almost always get back to the person you were criticizing, and the retaliations would begin in earnest. home.ptd.net/~n3cvj/sandbaggers.mp3Really we wish everyone was are good buddy! But the truth is that is always not so on radio in Ham or CB. I watched some YouTube videos with ham operators that kinda acted like some bad icons of CB radio! My channel has had a few doozies in my time on the radio. And sometimes you have to really think do I really want to key up. But sometimes it's funny to watch the Big Dogs fight. And recording even gives you hours of enjoyment after the dust clears lol.
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on May 3, 2016 12:15:42 GMT -5
You really do have to be careful of what you say OTA (or on social media). Not just for those who you are "at war" with, but people you are friends with as well. There are too many people out there who are sensitive and get hurt feelings if they find out that something even mildly critical was said about them and, when taken out of context, can often sound worse than it really was. Yea, it was kind of funny back in the day, the lengths we all went through to exchange more private comments over the air rather than taking the time to get up and call someone on the phone (many of us hated using the phone, or were restricted from usage of it by our parents) when criticisms of other people sprung up. We'd sneak off to out of band channels, developed "secret" codes, dropped power to milliwatt levels, running USB in the LSB bandwidth, and all sorts of tricks, just to restrict who could sandbag on the conversation. But no matter what tricks you did, word would almost always get back to the person you were criticizing, and the retaliations would begin in earnest. home.ptd.net/~n3cvj/sandbaggers.mp3Really we wish everyone was are good buddy! But the truth is that is always not so on radio in Ham or CB. I watched some YouTube videos with ham operators that kinda acted like some bad icons of CB radio! My channel has had a few doozies in my time on the radio. And sometimes you have to really think do I really want to key up. But sometimes it's funny to watch the Big Dogs fight. And recording even gives you hours of enjoyment after the dust clears lol. Well, human nature pretty much established that not everyone will get along, whether in real life, or over the radio. That's why we had groups all across the 23 (and later 40) channel band. A channel for each group of like-minded operators. But the walls between the channels are thin, and there always seemed to be some sort of jealousy or animosity between members of the different groups, which was the source of much conflict. Hams are not immune either, and 80 and 20 meters especially are hotbeds of personality clashes. It's a shame that we can't simply ignore those who we don't "click" with. But instead we feel compelled to tell the other person off. And of course they always hit back. But I would be lying if I didn't admit that some level of conflict was actually entertaining, as long as it didn't drag on for 6 years, driving one party to the point of stabbing voodoo dolls and wishing people dead, and the other party to dive into self destructive behavior at the hands of a bottle.........
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Post by MonkeyMan on May 4, 2016 8:51:37 GMT -5
I used to work for Siemens. I'll call the boss and get this straightened right out. Well, I called in and asked to speak with Mr. Siemens. After being on hold for three and a half hours I was transferred to the voice mailbox of "Customer Service Representative" and I left her a detailed message along with the web address of this thread. The call was recorded so I figure this will be taken care of promptly.
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