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Post by raider on Sept 8, 2008 7:56:13 GMT -5
I cant believe it!!!! I finally got to test a JO GUNN 4 star vrs. a Maco 5 element. I have a crank up fold over tower that extends up to 125ft. My point here is that this test happened in one day. I have been running a jo gunn for the last 4 years. I didnt buy it brand new but refurbished this beam to 100% new shape 4 years ago ordering 2 complete elements. I will say this they are stout and pretty! That is all I will say. When I put up the Maco I expected them to be pretty much hand for hand. I just wanted to experiment and run something different. I thought I would keep the Jo Gunn as a spare knowing that the maco is not very stout. The JO GUNN is now for sale. DOnt let anyone tell you otherwise. There was no comparision....not even close.....nada......close or far away this maco out performed the gunn by 2-5 S units. The JO GUNN is for sale now.....I could never go back to it after this test. Im sorry to all of the JO GUNN owners out there and understand this is just one of their antennas but those gain figures are bogus! I had a lot of compliments on the GUNN the four years I was running it however now the locals have renamed it JO JUNK.....I couldnt get rid of it now if I tried. locally. It was very very bad......Raider.
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Post by BionicChicken on Sept 8, 2008 11:20:26 GMT -5
I've seen similar results to verify your findings. I once put my M107 against a 5 element Joe Gunn. Now before someone starts in on the differences in length etc. let me finish. Mine and the other station were at the same height.....106' to the boom. Same feedline.....1/2" Heliax, and basically the same wattage. His final box was a SB220 and mine a SB221.
Now the big difference, I was spotting him a 75 mile head start on me and we were talking to a guy using both a beam and ground plane only 45 miles from him. 120 miles for me versus 45 for him. Three S-Units difference between mine and his on the beam and ground plane. He shortly afterwards took his antenna down and replaced it with a M105. Same test afterwards and the signal was almost the same but he could get above me for the most part.
BC
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss 
Posts: 6,247 
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Post by Sandbagger on Sept 8, 2008 18:07:47 GMT -5
I cant believe it!!!! I finally got to test a JO GUNN 4 star vrs. a Maco 5 element. I have a crank up fold over tower that extends up to 125ft. My point here is that this test happened in one day. I have been running a jo gunn for the last 4 years. I didnt buy it brand new but refurbished this beam to 100% new shape 4 years ago ordering 2 complete elements. I will say this they are stout and pretty! That is all I will say. When I put up the Maco I expected them to be pretty much hand for hand. I just wanted to experiment and run something different. I thought I would keep the Jo Gunn as a spare knowing that the maco is not very stout. The JO GUNN is now for sale. DOnt let anyone tell you otherwise. There was no comparision....not even close.....nada......close or far away this maco out performed the gunn by 2-5 S units. The JO GUNN is for sale now.....I could never go back to it after this test. Im sorry to all of the JO GUNN owners out there and understand this is just one of their antennas but those gain figures are bogus! I had a lot of compliments on the GUNN the four years I was running it however now the locals have renamed it JO JUNK.....I couldnt get rid of it now if I tried. locally. It was very very bad......Raider. I have a Maco 103C and I was accused of running a "Wannabee Jo-Gun". Ha! looks like I got the last laugh........ Honestly, I never had much respect for Jo-Gun. I find their specs to be way over inflated (And who ever hear of "audio gain" as a factor of an antenna?). Their designs are pretty much copies of the Gizmotchy, and while they work ok, they aren't the barn burners that some claim. They are built strong physically and that's a plus. But don't believe the hype....... |
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Post by radioreddz on Sept 14, 2008 0:46:07 GMT -5
has anybody tested a 6 element Gizmotchy against a 6 element Laser Maco would they be the same in performance. . ive always been courious about them and there design, i know they have been around probaly longer then any other antenna manufacture but i don't know anybody with one nor do i ever see any up in the air in my area. seems maco has a lock. i really am intested in the Giz. because of the flexability to make them larger. i knew Jo-Gunn gains were a big hype job but had no idea they get out talked by a maco of the same size.
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Post by crazybob on Sept 17, 2008 15:34:40 GMT -5
I talk to you guys on my 4-element Jogunn for years. It's been on my tower for about 8 years. It does not work quite as well as the PDL's it replaced. Before the PDL's, I ran a wilson (Maco) Lasar 400. The PDL's performed almost as good! I got the Jogunn because it will last forever. No wires, no muffler clamps, no cheesey hardware. It flat-out works decent, & is built like a tank. ..I think that the boom should longer. The Jogunn maybe poorly designed & overpriced. But it will still be there when many others are long gone. That's what I wanted at the time. A small, low matinence, reliable beam for gruond wave. ..It still looks brand new. I just now went outside & took this picture of it. ...It's not going anywhere.  |
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Post by zman on Sept 23, 2008 22:19:10 GMT -5
I have a used Jo Gunn 3x3 that was given to me by an old timer. I put it up and ran it with my Astroplane as a standby. The Jo Gunn heard just as well as the omni. The Jo Gunn had absolutely NO rear or side rejection at all, or so i noticed. The Jo Gunn beams are nice looking, sturdy, and have a low windload surface, which are all great, but as far as performance they are a joke. Over the years, i have ran alot of different beam antennas PDL 2's, Moonraker 4's, Gizmotchys, macos, ect ect, and the Jo gunn beams have been the worst performace wise IMHO. I now have up a home brew 4 element quad and thus far, it has been the best beam that i have used. I only run 4 watts AM and 12 SSB with a 15 year old Cobra 142 GTL base, and thats it. I can talk all over with the quad beam.
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Post by crazybob on Oct 1, 2008 13:35:15 GMT -5
There's a guy over here in South Jersey called 595. He built his own beam with Jo Gunn materials to MaCo specs! He used square boom & all. It has a longer boom than Jo Gunn. It kicks total butt!
My 4-element has decent forward gain & rejection. Better side rejection, than back-door. All yagi's are like that. Quads do perform best.
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Post by crazybob on Oct 5, 2008 11:45:46 GMT -5
I think that the PDL is an awesome beam for it's size. I would trade my Jo Gunn for one any day! Ouads are superior to yagi's in performance (on paper ..anyway).
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Post by BladeRunner now OLD FLASH!!!!! on Oct 5, 2008 16:50:20 GMT -5
I Hve a local here that just replaced his 3 element MaCo for a JoGunn 3 element 3 star. I've hear him on my maco 3 element and him on both the JoGunn and on the MaCo and they both look about the same on my meter. he's not saying much about it as far as how it compares to the MaCo.
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Post by crazybob on Oct 6, 2008 12:11:41 GMT -5
I always compare beam performance as to how it effects my receive, not my transmit.
It's easy to pump up the watts & be heard, but to pull out a weak, distant stations, & reject unwanted signals, is what separates a good beam antenna from an omni.
The Jo Gunn is built much stronger than a MaCo. ...but at what price?
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Post by zman on Oct 7, 2008 11:29:54 GMT -5
The best beam that i have operated thus far is my $10.00 (cost of hose clamps and hardware) homebrew 4 element quad made from a junker moonraker 4. I can turn it away a few degrees from any station close or far and lose them. Now THAT'S rejection! And, that's what i want in a beam, lazer accurate rejection on the sides and back, and good gain out the front. I have a Jo Gunn 3 star and i had it up a month or so and well, it had vitually NO rejection at all. Now my Jo Gunn sits in the garage up in the rafters to be used as a project antenna. Sure they are built like a brick-you-know-what but they don't perform worth a hill of beams IMHO! Plus they are so overpriced.
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Post by dgtr43 on Oct 7, 2008 13:14:29 GMT -5
Does anyone have any informatrion on a good groundplane? Is there anyone or some old new stock some where with an original Astroplane made by Avanti? What are some good ground planes?
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Post by zman on Oct 7, 2008 18:08:17 GMT -5
I didn't understand your question. It makes no sense. What are you wanting to know? If the Astoplane is a good antenna, or what? I have an astroplane but its no longer up. It is a pretty good antenna IMHO. I know there is a copy available but it isnt as well made as the old version made by Avanti. You can find one NOS on Ebay from time to time, but be ready to pay a premium for one!!!!!
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Post by BladeRunner now OLD FLASH!!!!! on Oct 10, 2008 23:56:04 GMT -5
Well, here in Little Rock Arkansas folks are going Jo Gunn Star crazy. According ot most around here that's the only antenna there is. From what I hear, I ge a better signal from the MaCo's , but I'm not sure what kind of power they are running. I have a MaCo 103 and I can hear very well over long distances. There is a guy with a Jo Gunn Starr 3 element about 10 miles and even when he has all his power on I can just barely hear him off the back side of my MACo and can't understand a word he says. i swing aorund toward him and he practically pegs my meter and is very loud. He said he never goth that kind of rear rejeciton from his maco. He sai he has practically no rear rejection from his Jo Gunn> he called the Jo Gunn company adn they told him they had to amke tham ike that or it would kill front gain.
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Post by BladeRunner now OLD FLASH!!!!! on Oct 11, 2008 0:00:22 GMT -5
I'm not criticising Jo Gunn anytennas because there is a hundred variables htat can affest one setup from the next. Height , build, coax, radio, grounding , just to mention a few
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Post by zman on Oct 11, 2008 12:22:09 GMT -5
Make them that way? No wonder my 3x3 star was worthless. Granted its built to the hilt but is mediocre on performance. BUT! It id manage to get a flat SWR across all 40 with the Jo Gunn..
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Post by zman on Oct 11, 2008 12:28:19 GMT -5
I dont know were they get thier antenna knoledge, but the only way to get any more forward gain on ANY beam is to extend the boom lenth and the element spacing. Any reliable antenna handbook as well as the ARRL handbook points that out. I have built several homemade beams (yagis, quagis, quads) overt the years and thats how i get my forward gain, bandwidth, and rejection is by the boom lenth and by spacing the elements.
My Jo Gunn 3x3 star only has a boomlenth of about 11 foot so thats why it is such a poor performer.
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Post by Marc on Oct 15, 2008 12:25:09 GMT -5
Yes increasing the spacing will give you more gain, but it will also directly effect your front to back ratio and your side rejection.
The longer boom(wider spacing) increases gain but reduces your front to back ratio(pore rear rejection)
The best practice would be to design your antenna for a good mix of gain and rejection then add elements to increase the forward gain. This will also improve the rejection.
Quad's work best with even numbers of elements ie( 2 4 6 8 and so on) in all my working with Yagi's they seam to like odd numbers (3 5 7 and so on)
I have put together two 5 element Moon-Raker's that worked very well forward gain went up a little but the rejection had a very noticeable difference.
Marc
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Post by zman on Oct 20, 2008 10:05:51 GMT -5
Speaking of Jo Gunn, they used to make a 4 element and a 5 element QUAD! I never knew they did this. I saw an old add for the quads on Retrocomm. They used wave and a half elements instead of full wave.
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Post by crazybob on Oct 24, 2008 19:50:43 GMT -5
I saw that pic. on retrocom.com They called it the JoGunn "Beam Machine". Here's one of them.  |
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Post by zman on Oct 26, 2008 19:21:12 GMT -5
YUP! Thats it! Too bad they dont make them anymore. Now they make those silly Star series antennas that aren't worth a hill of beans.
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