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Post by SteveInOregon on Feb 28, 2011 0:11:45 GMT -5
Ok folks, this is the Stoner once we have taken it down to its constituent boards, and now you see we have taken the melted blue colored 10 pin connector buses out ( two of them now gone ) as seen in forerm photos in the thread. We have cleaned up the board traces top & bottom and installed new wire jumpers in place. The blue two 10 pin connectors were a good factory idea as they allow the radios vertical face and horizontal analog FR boards to be joined together in a modular click / snap/ plug together installation and take apart. The former owner ( moron ) pulled apart the boards and snapped the pins, for what ever reason, possible to trace down his previous abuse due to a mullet head "tweek n peak" of a fine ssb instrument while snorting tweek what a freak !!! Your looking at the main analog RF board laying horizontally on the bench looking over it towards the radio face board standing vertical on the bench, with new multi colored jumper wires soldered to join each board. Note: the better / larger photos will not load even tho I compressed them as much as possible they are still to large *sigh
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Post by SteveInOregon on Feb 28, 2011 0:28:12 GMT -5
We found this little burned gem installed by the former owner Mr Neck Bolt himself
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Post by SteveInOregon on Feb 28, 2011 0:34:46 GMT -5
We also found this little inductor which has a chunk out of it , possibly from "popping" like pop corn when Frank Stein yelled AHHHHHHH DE OHHHHH into his over modulated Silver Eagle turned up to the max.
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Post by SteveInOregon on Feb 28, 2011 1:01:55 GMT -5
Photo shot right after we soldered these replacement jumpers replacing the melted broken blue pin connectors.
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Post by SteveInOregon on Feb 28, 2011 1:45:37 GMT -5
What do You think of dual 2SC1969's in replacement of the stock ones in the Stoner ?
My friend just shot that idea across the bow ?
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Post by rifleman on Feb 28, 2011 3:46:55 GMT -5
I would say leave them stock...
Why push the power supply, and maybe disturb the great audio?
If you want more power, put a good amplifier behind it.
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Post by rifleman on Feb 28, 2011 3:49:38 GMT -5
BTW...
Back in the day, I destroyed more radios by trying to get a few extra watts out of them than anything else!!!
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Post by SteveInOregon on Feb 28, 2011 9:11:46 GMT -5
I would say leave them stock... Why push the power supply, and maybe disturb the great audio? If you want more power, put a good amplifier behind it. I didn't know if those finals were hot or not, my friend just mentioned it last night, I mentioned it to you in a "is that quality" sense, not "is that power" type of question. I agree with you, I don't want more power from the radio. I want what Don Stoner said so stridently in his introductory 1st few pages of the factory manual ( paraphrazed) Don said " Do NOT turn up the final power wattage output , you will RUIN the beautiful audio we have worked so hard to acheive, nothing talks better than the Stoners as set from the factory paired with the D104 etc.... etc.....bal bla bla. I want the exact stock finals replacement, as it stands now, I can only locate and buy one of the two final transistors. The ones in it work, they do not get hot as I checked them in that manner, so we will keep them in the radio for now, put them on a metter, and a scope and see what they radio shows us on bench test equip. Yes I am a sane radio user , I always drive an amp for my raw power, not the radio. Hell I am easy on the mic too as I always have anplified mic of some sort, not to mention I am a side band guy, and SB'er are not known to be "audio-maniac's", all my friends are into broadcast quality sound over so called " loud n proud" sound. I am a "meter watcher", I am always looking at the meter to make sure I am not "swinging" into the red on transmit, and I catch well if I am, and I so the same for my friends, lol. I am getting an Ameritron A11-H. I have 3 other amp's that put out 150W ( 2 are CPI's ) , they all run clean on SB, so that is the way I get power by talking clean into a clean amp with a .64 & tall antenna.
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Post by cbrown on Feb 28, 2011 10:16:04 GMT -5
I would say leave them stock... Why push the power supply, and maybe disturb the great audio? If you want more power, put a good amplifier behind it. I agree 100%.
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Post by SteveInOregon on Feb 28, 2011 19:41:26 GMT -5
I would say leave them stock... Why push the power supply, and maybe disturb the great audio? If you want more power, put a good amplifier behind it. I agree 100%. X's 3 ;D
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 1, 2011 0:21:28 GMT -5
Hey Rifleman, we have the Stoner back together but we need the schematic for the face board / the vertical board that all the control knobs are connected to Do you know were that particular board diagram is ?
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Post by rifleman on Mar 1, 2011 2:36:22 GMT -5
It is called the Display / Panel Board.... And here you go.... Attachments:
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 1, 2011 11:50:11 GMT -5
Great thanks Rifleman, Now we can button this up. This is the last section to be diagnosed and remedied . The Stoner has now been powered back on and monitored, it is completely out of alignment in many ways. I now have two technician friends of mine on this radio, one did most of the work , he is my cb/side band friend, who is the computer repairman and hobbyist cb repairman. Thee other guy working on it is an old Elmer ham radio man who owns a tv repair shop, he is much more experienced , he builds home brew hf gear and test gear from scratch. So the Stoner is is sitting on a bench with the usual professional diagnostic bench test gear surrounding it , so it's in good hands. Right now it transmits, but it is not putting out much power or modulation but that was just a 1st preliminary check as they won't to go any further without all the schematics. This should be interesting, as there is no part of this fine old side-band'er that Frank Neckbolt Stein has not got his neanderthal hands into. Personally : Since this rig is no longer a "virgin" and since I will never sell it ( I have never been without a side band rig even when totally I mean totally broke ) what I am going to do is personalize it. Preface: "If" it was a virgin I would put it back to stock in ever way. I cant remember if I mentioned this in a former post. I am going to take a part of the comon red colored see thru front face plexiglass out, cut a peace off were the meters are so now theywill be like all the meters on other radios they will be 'clear', as it is now they are dark red, which is great for night time but i am not flying an airplane at night. The Red LED digital freq display will stay original. I am going to gently take out the peace of paper that says STONER 396 on it, in is in safe keeping, then print out KF7ARG on the same type of common thin semi transparent paper and put that in place so ever time I turn on the radio my personal ham license number comes on. I am pulling all the funky small front face knobs , putting them in a safe place and putting on one of two choices, either billet aluminum knurled knobs, ( I am looking thru catalogs now ) possibly putting the knobs from a Tram 201, or the beautiful fully rubberized knurled knobs from a trashed Sear Road Talker I have as those are the very nice more subtle knobs. I am replacing the cheep-o wire tilt stand which is just like the lame wire tilt stand on my Kenwood 430, and installing aluminum high end home stereo adjustable feet. This will all be tasteful, subtle and clean as if it was from a custom shop, NOT a garish bunch of parts all stuck on that don't blend aka a FrankenRig,lol. My little CPI ( one of two ) pre-amp that lights up with a Red colored ON THE AIR when I key up, I will take out the "On The Air" logo and replace it with a Red colored STONER 396 logo made custom from a print shop. I will put very nice matching wood side panels on it to match the Stoner and paint the white metal chassis to match the Stoner and put it in line with the Stoner , once it is done it will look like a perfect miniature factory Stoner accessory ,
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 2, 2011 20:55:33 GMT -5
Well Stoner # 396 is back on the air & sounds good.
It has a totally rebuilt , revised & Elmer moded - updated power supply board.
Its' been re-aligned, it has good ears, as it stands on a meter that does not read peak is is 12 watts of modulation with a un-amplified hand mic.
Aside from the burned out power board & fried volt regulators, the numerous bad caps, the broken resistors, the finals that were globbed in half a**'ed, the melted multi pin connectors, * say that in one breath*.
It had some tiny diodes installed the wrong way and with wrong values, a some cold solder joints, it is now better than stock and back to stock performance.
Next week it will get into the cosmetics I mentioned in the last post.
396 Out
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Post by rifleman on Mar 2, 2011 21:26:07 GMT -5
Before you get into the cosmetics, let me know....
I know some tricks...
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 3, 2011 20:38:39 GMT -5
Before you get into the cosmetics, let me know.... I know some tricks... Funny thing RM , when my tech friends looked at the photos of the two small power boards You sent me, they think that the one of yours that looks like mine with the C shaped heat sink hood was an older or stock version and the one of Your that has a different reg layout and no date stamp was a fix / a revision / an up grade, so that tipped them off. My small power supply regulator board has been totally revamped and beefed up. The older Elmer expert and extra ham of the two surgeons operating on my Stoner, he is fascinated with it, he really likes the quality, he loves the architecture , but see the old school components for what they are, and he sees the weakness as they Stoner is not quite a "one off" hand made unit as it still was needed to be a "company made" radio for quality "and profit thus easy to assembly and easy take down & repair. Any and all older components that have a better modern replacement or higher more practical electrical value for electrical stability have been replaced. He hard wired it , thus took away all the modularity , in it's place is a physically & electrically more solid unit that wont break quite as easy , will flow more amp & volts in needed junctures, and wont cause any opens in critical junctions or were there "was" less than optimal board traces. They could give you all the component technicality's, I can only give You a green horns simplistic overview. The old ham is keeping it for a few more day's , he has been talking to me on a 200ft plus long circular tuned loop. He wants to run it for a few days, and see how stable it is, etc...... SOoooooo You mentioned "tricks" ? ? ? ? ? Why hell R M You are your own CB Tricks one man web site , lol
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 5, 2011 14:04:16 GMT -5
Hey RifleMan, in Your last post -reply, You mentioned something about a tip or trick to cosmetically ? or internally mod the Stoner ?
regards
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Post by rifleman on Mar 6, 2011 13:37:30 GMT -5
Steve, this is something I posted on another forum on detailing D201's, but most of it will apply to the Stoner. The materials I use are one's that I have found works best (other people mat have found other materials that they like).
OK, this is going to be real long and drawn out. It may seem to be pretty anal the things I do, but there is a method (and order) to my madness, and the last thing I want to do is mess up a working radio. And, with your particular radio, you may not have to do all of these processes. But I suggest you do them in this order.
First, some of the things you will need.
3 or 4 cans of compressed air (Radio Shack is OK), or a low pressure compressed air source (for blowing out dust and excess cleaners). 1 small spray can of CAIG Laboratories DeoxIT D5 ‘Power Booster’ cleaner for the controls, switches, and tube sockets (Do Not use DN5, Gold, or Radio Shack contact cleaner) (you may want to find a friend that has some… It is almost $20 for a 5oz can, and you won’t need more than ¼ of a can max). A small (1/2” soft bristle) paint brush. If you have it, a vacuum cleaner that has a small hose attachment (not absolutely necessary). 1 small can of DENATURED alcohol (NOT Rubbing, Isopropel, or Old No. 7)(for cleaning the chassis, boards, and component parts). LOTS of Q-Tips!!! (I buy them 500 at a time). An old toothbrush (for cleaning the radio’s knobs). Meguiar’s Quick Detailer (or similar, for gently cleaning the knobs, face and other parts of the metal cabinet, without harming the paint and lettering). Liquid clear car wax/finish (I have been using Eagle One Clear Nanowax lately, but anything similar that is NOT a polish/cleaner, and leaves no white residue is fine). Some "Mop & Glow" for the wood panels. If you have scrathes on the plastic in front of the meter faces, a tube of Meguiar's "PlastX". A black medium point Sharpie or other black permanent marker for touching up the finish on the transformer, and a brown marker for any bad scratches on the case covers. And of course lots of paper towels and clean rags.
You need a place to work that is well lighted, and put down some cardboard on your work surface so the cleaning chemicals and dirt cannot harm your table.
Remove the power cord from the radio, turn the power switch on, and then wait at least 15 minutes to make sure that the main capacitors are completely discharged!!! Do not remove the tubes at this time.
Remember, as you clean, DO NOT get the alcohol or the DeoxIT cleaner on the face of the radio, the meter faces, the tuner dials, or the wood sides. It may destroy the paint, wood finish, and lettering. If you do get some on these areas, try to wipe it off quickly and carefully. (That is why you do not want to use any type of spray circuit board cleaner and flood the board and chassis. Also, it really does not get them that clean anyway) Less is better than more with the cleaning chemicals.
Remove the top and bottom covers. Clean them with the Detailer, let them dry, and apply the clear wax/finish as directed. Set them aside. (Note: If you have bad scratches and paint loss on the Trams, it is VERY hard to match the brown and off-white colors. If you want it touched-up, you should go to a professional to get it done. Trust me, I have seen some attempts at touching up this paint, and the majority looked absolutely terrible!!)
Use the brush and LIGHTLY brush the major dirt and dust loose from the interior chassis, boards, and components of the radio. Don’t have to be perfect here, that will come later. Use the vacuum if you have it CAREFULLY to remove the loose dust or blow the dust and dirt out with compressed air as you go with the brushing. Be VERY CAREFULL around the channel selector switch, the VFO air variable capacitor, and the wiring. There should not be much dust underneath the chassis, so you may not have to do anything underneath it besides blowing any cobwebs out of the ‘Rats Nest” with some compressed air.
If you are NOT having any switching trouble with the channel selector or mode switch, or any scratchiness in the volume, squelch, RF gain, limiter, SWR cal pots, don’t clean them. If the receive VFO air variable capacitor is VERY dirty, clean between the plates with the soft brush very gently, and blow it out with compressed air. If it is not that dirty, leave it alone. If you are having trouble with the pots, find the opening in them (usually near the connectors they are wired to, and you may have to turn the radio upside down and sideways to get to them), you may want to put some paper toweling around the pot to prevent overspray, spray a small amount of DeoxIT into the pot (you don’t need to soak them), turn the knob back and forth it’s full amount several times to clean the pot, spray a small amount into it again to loosen the dirt, and then shoot some compressed air into it to blow out the dirty cleaner and dry it.
If you are having problems with the channel selector switch, you want to clean JUST the switch contacts with a small amount of the DeoxIT. You may need a strong flashlight to see what you are doing here. Take your time with this. Pack some paper towels around for the excess cleaner. You may need to practice getting the DeoxIT nozzle down there between the boards to prevent bending any of the switch contacts, or getting excess cleaner on the channel indicator plate. Spray the contacts lightly, turn the knob slowly thru the channels 3 or 4 times, spray again, and then blow off the excess with compressed air. Just to let you know, DeoxIT dries in about 2 to 3 minutes, so you have a little time to turn the switches and pots.
If the tops of the tubes are dirty and ‘gummy’ you can clean JUST the very top of them with a damp paper towel. DO NOT clean the sides of the tubes with anything besides a DRY towel. Any water or cleaner on their sides will most likely remove any lettering or markings from the tubes.
OK, now cleaning the tube sockets. It may seem anal, but you may see a jump in the performance of the radio with this. Remove one tube (if the tube does not want to come out, spray a little DeoxIT around between the tube and its socket, and wait a couple of minutes before trying again) and spray a small amount of DeoxIT into all of the socket pin holes. Put the tube in and out of the socket 3 or 4 times. Remove the tube and spray the socket with cleaner again. Then shoot compressed air into the socket to blow out any excess cleaner. Any splatter on the board or chassis will be cleaned up later. Wait a minute or two and replace the tube in its socket. Repeat for all of the tubes.
Now comes the tedious part. Using Q-Tips dipped (but not dripping) in DENATURED alcohol clean the circuit boards, chassis, transformer frames (Don’t soak the transformer windings), components, and wires in the radio. Get into all of the little nooks and crannys between all of the components. The alcohol will not harm the boards, wire insulation, resistors, disc capacitors, transistors, etc. Just make sure to keep it away from the dial faces, the paint on the face and exterior of the radio, and the wood panels. Throw the Q-Tips away when dirty and start again with a clean one. You may have to go over the areas several times until they are clean and film-free. When doing this it is a great time to notice if there are any discolored, swollen, or burned components. Also if there are any burn marks on the boards, that would suggest any previous problems with the radio. The Tram bases used material for their chassis that was not very prone to corrosion, unlike other brands, and they usually clean up very nice.
The top of the power transformer normally gets a little rusty over time. It is way too much of a hassle to remove, sand, and repaint it. Hopefully you cleaned the surface of the transformer with the alcohol earlier, and it is dust and dirt free. Dampen a rag with a little of the Quick Detailer. Use the black Sharpie on a portion of the transformer, wait a couple of seconds, and then rub the area with the cloth. You will have to do this a few times to get the Sharpie ink fairly consistent in color on the transformer. Just be careful not to get it on the chassis or hold-down bolts. Usually you will just have to do the top of the transformer to make it look good. It will not look perfect, but it will look a whole lot better than it did, and the ink will not separate from the transformer when it gets warm.
Use the "Mop & Glow" on the wood sides. If there are bad scratches in the wood, you can find at hardware or furniture stores oil/wax crayons for hiding scratches. If you need to use these, go first with one that you estimate is a little lighter than the existing finish. A darker one will make the scratches look worse.
You can put the top and bottom back on the radio, being careful with the top and its power interlock switch.
If you have scratches on the plastic in front of the meter faces, now is the time to use the "PlastX" on them. Just follow the directions on the bottle. You will not get the real deep scratches out, but it will clean up the minor ones good.
Put a rag or towel under the front of the radio, and tilt the back of the radio up a bit with a flat box or something. Using the toothbrush and Quick Detailer scrub forwards and backwards (the direction of the grooves) on the knobs. The tilting of the radio will make a lot of the dirty detailer drip off the front of the knobs onto the rag, and keep it from running down the front face, and working its way into the radio. Turn the knobs back and forth, and keep on scrubbing lightly until all of the grooves are clean. Wipe the knobs dry when done.
Dampen a clean rag with a bit of the Quick Detailer and clean the front face and rear of the radio. Use light pressure so you don’t harm the lettering. When you have cleaned a small area, use a dry cloth to dry the cleaned area. If you don’t, the detailer will leave water-type spots on the finish. You can’t get into the corners and close around the knobs, cracks, etc. with the cloths. Dampen a Q-Tip with the Detailer and get into those places, a small area at a time, then use a dry Q-Tip to dry those small areas.
Last, put a small amount of the liquid clear car finish on a clean rag and apply it to the knobs, front face, rear of the radio, and the painted cabinet (Not the wood sides). Using the clear type non-residue finish should keep any buffing of it when it’s dry to a minimum. Use it very lightly around the speaker grille so you don’t clog up the small openings and have to spend time trying to clean all those holes out with a toothpick!! As with the Quick Detailer, use Q-Tips to get into all of the tight spots applying and buffing the liquid car finish.
Now, double-check that the tubes are all fully in their sockets. Check that no wires or plugs came loose during the cleaning. And make sure that everything is clean and dry.
And You Are Done !!! Enjoy !!!
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 7, 2011 22:00:04 GMT -5
T%hanks RM, this is perfect as my 201-A will arrive this week, and my 23CH 201 will be along the following week.
;D
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 10, 2011 19:54:42 GMT -5
Well I got it back after each little component was checked and or replaced.
The power supply board has been re-designed and beefed up with better volt regulators and a monster heat sink using the radio deck divider.
Each circuit and major component within each circuit has been traced and marked in felt tip marker in real time directly on the radios boards indicating which item they are coinciding with the factory schematics.
It has been aligned and re aligned, tuned and re tuned and running for 2 days strait on the bench ,m the off & on for another couple days.
I have now go it and it has been on for over 24 hours with many long Qso's and no problems so far.
I cut the red plexiglas face in two in order to open a clean gap for the meters to show up clear and white and re-installed the red plexiglas over the digital number - letter display and now it looks factory s-w-e-e-t.
I installed a high quality Sony speaking inside it, in the bottom cabinet with just enough room to not push down on any components and soldered it t inside the audio strip jack connections and now it has a beautiful sound without need for external speaks, just like the 1st few hundred / version's of the Stoner's.
This may be redundant I can't remember if I said this more than once, if so then sorry for blathering on and on, anyways I have a beautiful dial the same outside diameter of the 10 turn clarify'er made of a solid billet of brass with knurled outside hand hold edges and lined black rubber for the clarifier.
I have high end knurled and adjustable billet aluminum rubber cushioned screw adjustable leg's coming.
I painted the top and bottom case covers a dark almost black "Grey" with a small about of metal flake which came out flawless and now all the years of tiny scars and mars are all gone.
I refinished the wood side boards and now this radio is starting to be a "real keeper".
Photos coming soon.
Cheers
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Post by rifleman on Mar 10, 2011 21:38:34 GMT -5
Sounds great Steve.....
I would love to see some photos of it !!!
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Post by cbrown on Mar 11, 2011 11:10:31 GMT -5
I would love to see some photos of it !!! Same here!
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Post by Sniper..Unit 305 on Mar 11, 2011 13:30:37 GMT -5
Sure sounds like your project turned out really nice!
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 19, 2011 11:39:49 GMT -5
I'm still waiting on knobs in the mail.
Right now it drifts off transmit, and I have to stick a screw driver thru a small hole in the bottom cabinet to give it a slight re-tune every half hour or when I turn it back on.
So we are going to lock the TX & RX together so it will tune from the clarifier.
CB Radio Magazine has a vintage copy of Secret CB mod magazine on line that shows how to do it plus some other StonePro 40 mod's.
It is also off , so on RX I have to tune it to 27.38487 to hear myself clear & in tune in the headphone on my Kenwood which is listening on 27.38500.
There is a cap that needs to go by by, because one side of the digital freq readout flickers a bit, so electrically I am still messing with it
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 19, 2011 18:47:06 GMT -5
R M , or any one else in the know.
1) Do You know what is the correct way of adjusting the freq display readout ?
It is off a few kc from true freq.
My tech buddy locked both TX & RX together which is great, but we need to set the display to read true freg.
Example: I am on 27385.0 in both TX & RX, but the display reads 27384.7
2) The "H" in C H is dim in comparison to all other numbers and letters in the display, is that something that can been turned up some how, or just live with it ?
3) The decimal point / dot> . < it flickers at a constant pulsing beat , is that normal ?
4 The AGC or some circuit similar to if clips off / nulls the initial incoming signal from close by stations.
Example: My friend lives 5 miles away, he hits me average S 5 / peak S 10, all the other guys on my home channel are lower in S unit strength.
I run all my radios with the squelch just set at the threshold so the background hash is quieted / muted out but just ever so slightly so that any tiny small signal can break open the squelch so I don't miss anyone far off weak signal stations, 'but' I always miss the 1st few syllables of the closest most powerful station because the Stony nulls down his strong signal.
What I would like to do is stop that AGC so I can manualy attenuate incoming strong signals via the FR gain knob.
Do You know how to remedy this ?
thank You again, and again, and a-g-a-i-n, lol. ;D
regards
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Post by rifleman on Mar 25, 2011 12:39:07 GMT -5
1) When you go to CH 38 USB does the display read 27385.3 ?? Remember, the sidebands are slightly lower and higher than the center freq. of the channels. Usually the sidebands are 150 hx off of center frequency. Plus there is at least a 100 hz error in the radio's counter.
2) The LED should be getting 12 volts to it. Check the voltage going to that LED. Also check the ground from it. Usually if LED's are bad, they or their segments just go dead.
3) The decimal point on my radios flickered. I do not know if it supposed to do that though.
4) Read page 13 of the manual. Does that stop when you open up the squelch slightly more? If so, then the squelch circuit is turning off on audio peaks. Also, if you turn down the RF Gain, it disables the AVC circuit.
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 25, 2011 22:48:56 GMT -5
Ok, let's see, 1) To answer you, when I switch from LSB to USB the freq on the 'display' stays the same, nothing changes, which for me on CH38 LSB happens to be 2738.47. Will that answer anything that has to pertain to my tech buddies original question: "How or were do we go to adjust the display" ?
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Post by rifleman on Mar 26, 2011 0:00:21 GMT -5
I really do not know.....
I am sure your guys did the "PLL & Counter Board Test" on pages 19 and 20 of the manual to align the synthesizers.
I see a note in the manual about adjusting the display, BUT THEY DO NOT SAY WHERE !!!
You may want to have your tech look at the schematic for the "Syn. & Freq Counter Board". L608 looks like it may be an adjustment for the last 2 digits, but confirm with him about it before doing anything.
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Post by SteveInOregon on Mar 26, 2011 16:46:21 GMT -5
Ok , will do
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