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Post by qbeams12 on Feb 5, 2013 21:51:39 GMT -5
I know some of you may beat up on me a bit about this idea, but I just wanted some opinions just to see what some of you thought !!! I've been into radios right at 30 yrs...I have seen some radical antenna configurations, but mostly yagi beams !!!I've seen stacked 3ele to stacked 8ele to plain single yagis !!! There was one special time someone built a 10ele vertical and it was the baddest in the swamp for what it was. Don't know exact dimensions but it was made out of 3'' boom and was 50'+ long @72' in height !! It didnt last long though, a strong storm took it out and the boom was the weak link !!! I'm not happy with my 8ele and lookin for something more and I know this 10ele was a bad antenna....@ 35 miles with a JB-150 he could put 20db on my mobile.....I know this for a fact he was checked by some reputable sources !!! We knew a local sherriff deputy experienced in cb radios and had him go over to this guys house on an investigation...LMAO...it was the only way we could prove what equipment he was running !!! Turns out he owned a single JB-150 !! I figure I could reconstruct this beam with heavy wall boom and it hold up !!! I have the rotor to turn it, just wondering what you guys thought......thanks
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**GRUMPY**
Administrator/The Boss 
Classic Radio Operator Olde Timer 8220 [/color][/center]
"The King of Ping"
Posts: 4,342
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Post by **GRUMPY** on Feb 6, 2013 8:52:07 GMT -5
Maybe I am way off on what I about to say, but I can't see where you are going to get that much more gain out of the 10 element compared to the 8 element you already have! 
I would think it be more for looks than actual gain.... but maybe I am wrong!
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Post by gator7 on Feb 6, 2013 9:44:27 GMT -5
The rejection might be a bit better, But I agree with Grumpy. Not much difference local on gain. Skip may be another story?
73,
Gator.
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Post by cbrown on Feb 6, 2013 9:55:23 GMT -5
I agree with Grumpy and Gator.
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Post by Marc on Feb 6, 2013 10:49:28 GMT -5
I think if I was going to put that much up in the air. and was going to go vert. I would stack 7'S you would get about the same gain but the pattern would be so tight. If I had the cash and the space I would stack horz 7's For what a boom that long would cost you could pretty much buy a second M107.
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bluebird
Big Bucket Mouth
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Post by bluebird on Feb 6, 2013 15:42:44 GMT -5
I know some of you may beat up on me a bit about this idea, but I just wanted some opinions just to see what some of you thought !!! I've been into radios right at 30 yrs...I have seen some radical antenna configurations, but mostly yagi beams !!!I've seen stacked 3ele to stacked 8ele to plain single yagis !!! There was one special time someone built a 10ele vertical and it was the baddest in the swamp for what it was. Don't know exact dimensions but it was made out of 3'' boom and was 50'+ long @72' in height !! It didnt last long though, a strong storm took it out and the boom was the weak link !!! I'm not happy with my 8ele and lookin for something more and I know this 10ele was a bad antenna....@ 35 miles with a JB-150 he could put 20db on my mobile.....I know this for a fact he was checked by some reputable sources !!! We knew a local sherriff deputy experienced in cb radios and had him go over to this guys house on an investigation...LMAO...it was the only way we could prove what equipment he was running !!! Turns out he owned a single JB-150 !! I figure I could reconstruct this beam with heavy wall boom and it hold up !!! I have the rotor to turn it, just wondering what you guys thought......thanks i would get a lazer 500 |
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**GRUMPY**
Administrator/The Boss
Classic Radio Operator Olde Timer 8220 [/color][/center]
"The King of Ping"
Posts: 4,342
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Post by **GRUMPY** on Feb 6, 2013 16:24:03 GMT -5
bluebird.... why would you suggest a Laser 500 when he is already unhappy with the 8 element he is currently running? The antenna he has now has more elements (8) the Laser has (7), but has verticle and horizontal polarity. Gain figures are about the same, he wouldn't have much advantage by going with the Laser from what he has now except the polarity part!
Just asking for conversation sake!
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Post by qbeams12 on Feb 6, 2013 21:21:13 GMT -5
I appreciate what yall are sayin....I'm tryin to talk myself out of it, but for some reason I just gotta do it. Most of my locals are tryin to talk me out of it to !!! I think an 8 element stretched out to 48' would be just as potent !!! I'm gonna run this through some software programs and a few conversations with some local ham antenna guru's and see !!! I tell ya that 10 element that fella had was bad to the bone !!! Thanks guys !!!
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Post by "Doc"Hammer on Feb 7, 2013 0:24:41 GMT -5
While your modeling software may show you a decent gain advantage over an 8 element, it can't show you real world reality...An 8 element (M-108 for instance) weighs somewhere around 80 pounds assembled, a 40 foot boom etc. Adding 8 feet and 2 sets of elements will easily push the weight to over 120 pounds and as you know, that increases your windload as well. An increase of 30% in weight and surface area doesn't equal a 30% in windloading..especially if the wind is blowing lets say 30 mph. more weight = an ncreasing wind load as the wind speed increases..(at least 50 percent) if your rotor brake is at or close to it's limit in holding an 8 element at a 30 mph wind, it will be at its limit at somewhere between 15 and 20mph (possibly less) on a 10 element with your dimensions...not to mention you'll need a sizable increase in mast size, mounting hardware and tower support. For most folks, the extra 2 db in forward gain (and that's on paper) doesn't justify all the extra work entailed in getting that monster in the air. In real terms, I doubt you will see much of any noticeable difference in use except for the visual "bragging rights" of a monster antenna.
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Post by spitfire441 on Feb 7, 2013 6:55:28 GMT -5
I agree with Grumpy and Gator. I agree with Grumpy,Gator and CB Brown.  |
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss
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Post by Sandbagger on Feb 7, 2013 7:47:35 GMT -5
While your modeling software may show you a decent gain advantage over an 8 element, it can't show you real world reality...An 8 element (M-108 for instance) weighs somewhere around 80 pounds assembled, a 40 foot boom etc. Adding 8 feet and 2 sets of elements will easily push the weight to over 120 pounds and as you know, that increases your windload as well. An increase of 30% in weight and surface area doesn't equal a 30% in windloading..especially if the wind is blowing lets say 30 mph. more weight = an ncreasing wind load as the wind speed increases..(at least 50 percent) if your rotor brake is at or close to it's limit in holding an 8 element at a 30 mph wind, it will be at its limit at somewhere between 15 and 20mph (possibly less) on a 10 element with your dimensions...not to mention you'll need a sizable increase in mast size, mounting hardware and tower support. For most folks, the extra 2 db in forward gain (and that's on paper) doesn't justify all the extra work entailed in getting that monster in the air. In real terms, I doubt you will see much of any noticeable difference in use except for the visual "bragging rights" of a monster antenna. I would have to concur with Hammer's analytical appraisal of the situation. As much as I like getting more gain from antennas, there is a practical limitation, and a point of diminishing returns. You need a super strong structure to hold a super large antenna, and everything associated with it also needs to be beefed up as well. And if not, the first really good wind/ice storm will bring a dramatic end to a really nice antenna system. There's a saying that has been going around some ham circles that says basically that you get your front to back ratio from your beam, but forward gain comes from the wall socket. So weighing in the pro's and con's of building a large beam antenna system, I would recommend not going any larger than an 8 element, and if you want that extra 2-3 db, just double your output power. |
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Post by qbeams12 on Feb 7, 2013 8:06:37 GMT -5
Thanks guys....I've gone through the figures, the rotor and mast are no problem, I've got that under control !!! I've run stacked 5's before they were pretty fierce, but I'm still convinced the 10element will be a bit more potent than the 8element !!! The only real threat is the storms, ice is not really a problem this far south, even though it can happen !!!
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Post by Night Ranger on Feb 7, 2013 9:35:32 GMT -5
Thanks guys....I've gone through the figures, the rotor and mast are no problem, I've got that under control !!! I've run stacked 5's before they were pretty fierce, but I'm still convinced the 10element will be a bit more potent than the 8element !!! The only real threat is the storms, ice is not really a problem this far south, even though it can happen !!! How high is the antenna? If it is in the 50 foot range or lower you will get a bigger bang by raising the antenna to the 75 foot mark. At that height you will be shooting over most of the trees instead of through them. My experience has been getting up to 75 feet makes a huge difference, but after that the gain per foot of height decreases. At 75 foot or more your biggest problem will be keeping an antenna that big from tearing up or coming back down. I'd probably go for a 5 element yagi at 75 feet. Yes it has less gain than the 8 element beam, but it would probably stay up in working condition longer than the 8 element at that height. Guy it well! Night Ranger/South Carolina 116 |
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Post by cbrown on Feb 7, 2013 10:02:26 GMT -5
I would recommend not going any larger than an 8 element, and if you want that extra 2-3 db, just double your output power. Agreed, it would be cheaper in the long run and a lot more practical. You'll spend more money and time beefing up the 8 element to handle all the extra weight and bending loads. And as Doc points out, you'll need a really big rotor to handle that beam. |
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Post by qbeams12 on Feb 8, 2013 15:08:03 GMT -5
Thanks guys....I've gone through the figures, the rotor and mast are no problem, I've got that under control !!! I've run stacked 5's before they were pretty fierce, but I'm still convinced the 10element will be a bit more potent than the 8element !!! The only real threat is the storms, ice is not really a problem this far south, even though it can happen !!! How high is the antenna? If it is in the 50 foot range or lower you will get a bigger bang by raising the antenna to the 75 foot mark. At that height you will be shooting over most of the trees instead of through them. My experience has been getting up to 75 feet makes a huge difference, but after that the gain per foot of height decreases. At 75 foot or more your biggest problem will be keeping an antenna that big from tearing up or coming back down. I'd probably go for a 5 element yagi at 75 feet. Yes it has less gain than the 8 element beam, but it would probably stay up in working condition longer than the 8 element at that height. Guy it well! Night Ranger/South Carolina 116 Was planning on putting it up at 108' to the middle of the boom....my 8 element was at 72'.....really would like to get it up to 144' but I don't think it would survive the weather up that high.....you guys probably think I'm crazy as hell, but I was brought up around the old school radio guys where height was might and power was the gospel......kinda rubbed off !!! |
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Post by Night Ranger on Feb 8, 2013 15:42:28 GMT -5
How high is the antenna? If it is in the 50 foot range or lower you will get a bigger bang by raising the antenna to the 75 foot mark. At that height you will be shooting over most of the trees instead of through them. My experience has been getting up to 75 feet makes a huge difference, but after that the gain per foot of height decreases. At 75 foot or more your biggest problem will be keeping an antenna that big from tearing up or coming back down. I'd probably go for a 5 element yagi at 75 feet. Yes it has less gain than the 8 element beam, but it would probably stay up in working condition longer than the 8 element at that height. Guy it well! Night Ranger/South Carolina 116 Was planning on putting it up at 108' to the middle of the boom....my 8 element was at 72'.....really would like to get it up to 144' but I don't think it would survive the weather up that high.....you guys probably think I'm crazy as hell, but I was brought up around the old school radio guys where height was might and power was the gospel......kinda rubbed off !!! Height is definitely might. I grew up living on top of a hill. My friend lived in a lower area. I always assumed his Varmint XL-600 (6 tubes) and 250+ watts dead key could step on my D&A Hornet (two tubes) with 45 watts out. One day we did a signal comparison, and I had him by an S unit. My antenna was only about 45 to 50 feet up, but the hilltop location made up for it. Once I moved the antenna to the top of an 80 foot pine tree it was all over but the crying. I upgraded to a Palomar 300a (275 watts dead key). and I could get over stations with 4 and 6 element Moonrakers at 50 feet up and equal power even through I was still on a .64 wave Radio Shack ground plane. Assuming a good base antenna system at 75 feet up at the base of the antenna or better.......On power output, 100 watts dead key will get you there. 250 watts dead key puts it in the red. 400 watts dead key gets over most CB'ers with ease. After that I think you only need more if you want to consistently be heard on the super bowl or one of it's minor bowl channels. Night Ranger |
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss
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Post by Sandbagger on Feb 8, 2013 22:21:00 GMT -5
400 watts dead key gets over most CB'ers with ease. After that I think you only need more if you want to consistently be heard on the super bowl or one of it's minor bowl channels. Night Ranger Or you're a bitter moron with small man syndrome, who likes to make other people as miserable as he is..... |
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Post by qbeams12 on Feb 9, 2013 0:25:50 GMT -5
Assuming a good base antenna system at 75 feet up at the base of the antenna or better.......On power output, 100 watts dead key will get you there. 250 watts dead key puts it in the red. 400 watts dead key gets over most CB'ers with ease. After that I think you only need more if you want to consistently be heard on the super bowl or one of it's minor bowl channels Read more: grumpy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ANT&action=display&thread=6760#ixzz2KNMUy15vI barely dead keyed 400w with my driver......LOL....I know I seem a bit smartass......sorry !!! I realize it's not like it used to be, there aren't any techs around like there used to be, including equipment....To the new operators I will say this, Contrary to what most people believe the equipment is still out there !!! Most of my equipment is old but has been kept up to date on the components. I make sure and try to keep everything up to date and as new as possible.......Try not to buy anything off of Ebay unless it's someone I know !!! Never be afraid to learn or try something new,we have the internet now, you can learn about anything, I've been doing this crap for 30yrs and learned most of what I know from experience/experiments and listening and watching the old guys...... I've had my name called with 1k dk on the bowl....I'm a whiteboy they aren't gonna call my name much !!!!  ....But when I dump a 3500w dk on their bowl, someone always called my name !!! ;D ;D....My ultimate goal would be to have a 7000w dk...I think a 3cx10k would do the job !!! Thats just me though !!! |
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Post by Night Ranger on Feb 9, 2013 0:34:35 GMT -5
Assuming a good base antenna system at 75 feet up at the base of the antenna or better.......On power output, 100 watts dead key will get you there. 250 watts dead key puts it in the red. 400 watts dead key gets over most CB'ers with ease. After that I think you only need more if you want to consistently be heard on the super bowl or one of it's minor bowl channels Read more: grumpy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ANT&action=display&thread=6760#ixzz2KNMUy15vI barely dead keyed 400w with my driver......LOL....I know I seem a bit thingyy......sorry !!! I realize it's not like it used to be, there aren't any techs around like there used to be, including equipment.... Contrary to what most people believe the equipment is still out there !!! Most of my equipment is old but has been kept up to date on the components. I make sure and try to keep everything up to date and as new as possible.......Try not to buy anything off of Ebay unless it's someone I know !!! I've had my name called with 1k dk on the bowl....I'm a whiteboy they aren't gonna call my name much !!!! ....But when I dump a 3500w dk on their bowl, someone always called my name !!! ;D ;D I've gotten my name called on the Super Bowl with 275 watts out of a Palomar 300a.......although that was way back in the 1980s. The last time in recent times (last summer) when I got my named called down on the Super Bowl was with a 450 watt dead key out of two 3-500zg tubes in to my homemade six element curtain array. It only took two calls before I was answered. Night Ranger |
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Post by qbeams12 on Feb 9, 2013 4:47:57 GMT -5
Is that the same curtain array setup I saw on Youtube???...I believe you were talking on LSB38 to a guy down in Texas ?? I tell a lot of guys about the difference in a beam and a ground plane antenna, but that's like telling a crackhead he can rehab hanging out in a crack house !!! And most of the guys that do come from the big mobiles go straight to the flat side antenna, why I'll never understand other than flatside may talk a little better in skipand for noise level !! Does it really make that much difference  Most people that first get on the radio are running ground planes, so I choose to run vertical beam so I can talk local, I don't find that much difference to talk flatside !!! |
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Post by Night Ranger on Feb 9, 2013 8:03:15 GMT -5
Is that the same curtain array setup I saw on Youtube???...I believe you were talking on LSB38 to a guy down in Texas ?? I tell a lot of guys about the difference in a beam and a ground plane antenna, but that's like telling a crackhead he can rehab hanging out in a crack house !!! And most of the guys that do come from the big mobiles go straight to the flat side antenna, why I'll never understand other than flatside may talk a little better in skipand for noise level !! Does it really make that much difference Most people that first get on the radio are running ground planes, so I choose to run vertical beam so I can talk local, I don't find that much difference to talk flatside !!! Yep. The six element curtain array on YouTube is my antenna. That antenna rocks! My homemade 6 element curtain array antenna for the CB band www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQQt9E2EiX8I almost never go down to the Super Bowl, but I figured that would be a good test to see how it was working. After the second call a guy in Texas came back to me. Some of the locals have been having trouble talking to stations in California on channel 28 AM with the usual CB antennas, but I've been talking to the California guys regularly with only a 250 watt dead key out of a D&A Maverick in to the six element curtain array. They key is the lower take off angle of the six element curtain array versus a four element horizontal Yagi at 40 or 50 feet. I prefer horizontal polarization for skip talking because it has a significantly lower static level than vertical, and it significantly reduces bleed over from the locals talking on vertical. Night Ranger/South Carolina 116 |
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Post by Night Ranger on Feb 11, 2013 13:46:04 GMT -5
400 watts dead key gets over most CB'ers with ease. After that I think you only need more if you want to consistently be heard on the super bowl or one of it's minor bowl channels. Night Ranger Or you're a bitter moron with small man syndrome, who likes to make other people as miserable as he is..... Most of the guys like that I have run in to did not run that much. They just thought they did. I get a kick out of getting over the pile-ups with less power and an antenna system that most CB'ers have never even heard of. I'm already playing with EZNEC to try and top my six element curtain array without large financial expenditure. I want to build an eight element curtain array that is four rows high and two colum\ns wide, but I'll need two 90 foot tall supports to do it. Pitty. The EZNEC plots and graphs for it look great. In this case it might actually be easier and cheaper to build a screen reflector behind the current six element curtain array. If I make the array wider (two bay Lazy H or two bay six element array) the beam width gets too narrow to cover the whole West Coast from South Carolina, so I'd rather raise the gain by compressing the vertical part of the radiation pattern and lowering the take off angle. Making the array direction of maximum gain steerable by +/- 15 degrees is possible through phasing lines, but the complexity of the antenna goes up significantly. That leaves the screen reflector. Night Ranger / South Carolina 116 |
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Post by "Doc"Hammer on Feb 11, 2013 16:45:56 GMT -5
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Post by qbeams12 on Feb 11, 2013 17:32:31 GMT -5
No offense Doc....you may be able to key on the big boys in Kansas, that's great !!! I used to key on them when I had my beam on a top section getting it ready for my main tower !!! Elements were 10' above the ground, your point is taken into consideration !!! If you wanted to talk 150miles down the road what good would that 2 element do??? you would be lucky to be heard on the other side of the neighborhood as low as that thing is....not trying to beat my chest or make a competition out of the 10 element idea, but with all do respect the money, work, and pain in the ass is coming out of my pocket...don't bash my idea or make a joke out of this !!!
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Post by "Doc"Hammer on Feb 11, 2013 18:40:42 GMT -5
No offense Doc....you may be able to key on the big boys in Kansas, that's great !!! I used to key on them when I had my beam on a top section getting it ready for my main tower !!! Elements were 10' above the ground, your point is taken into consideration !!! If you wanted to talk 150miles down the road what good would that 2 element do??? you would be lucky to be heard on the other side of the neighborhood as low as that thing is....not trying to beat my chest or make a competition out of the 10 element idea, but with all do respect the money, work, and pain in the ass is coming out of my pocket...don't bash my idea or make a joke out of this !!! Ok...first off, I could care less about "competition" and I don't recall even mentioning anyone's name in particular, yours....I have no problems talking when or where I want, on channel 6, or on any frequency for that matter. I know some folks in Pennsylvania who'll tell you that 2 element talks pretty decent.... I do manage to talk to Wichita several times a week on sideband and 75 watts...a trip of 89 miles.....For some folks, situations only give you a limited number of options available because of space, landlords etc. It's called making do with what you got, the best you can. I CAN afford an 8 element long-john, and I CAN afford a dual 3cx3000 amp...but what for? So I can key on a loud-mouth across town or across the country? My mission in life is to talk skip and I have talked and gotten my name called in every state stateside and 42 countries overseas and I've got the log book to prove it! 99 % of the time, I talk where I want when conditions are in on LESS than 200 watts. If you let your EGO be the driving force in this hobby, you are not only foolish, but are wasting money in a never ending contest of watts. If you are licensed, that kind of foolishness will contribute to your losing your license...If you aren't licensed then you run the risk of someone reporting your behavior and losing your equipment. Thats the price of playing in the sandbox with the "big boys". The "competition never ends....Some violators never make the news...for instance, a certain 30K Harris transmitter and it's owner on the west coast now 27,000 dollars poorer and looking at life from a different perspective.  I bow to no-one...I don't have to! |
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Post by Night Ranger on Feb 11, 2013 19:38:43 GMT -5
I prefer to make the trip with antenna power and antenna height mostly. Ground elevation definitely counts as my old hilltop location in my home town proved time and time again. I've made the Classic Radio Roundup with S9 signals on several occasions with only a 100 watt dead key out of an old D&A Raider. It's always feels nice to step on some big RF with a little RF and alot of antenna and antenna height.  Night Ranger |
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss
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Post by Sandbagger on Feb 12, 2013 7:35:13 GMT -5
No offense Doc....you may be able to key on the big boys in Kansas, that's great !!! I used to key on them when I had my beam on a top section getting it ready for my main tower !!! Elements were 10' above the ground, your point is taken into consideration !!! If you wanted to talk 150miles down the road what good would that 2 element do??? you would be lucky to be heard on the other side of the neighborhood as low as that thing is....not trying to beat my chest or make a competition out of the 10 element idea, but with all do respect the money, work, and pain in the ass is coming out of my pocket...don't bash my idea or make a joke out of this !!! Ok...first off, I could care less about "competition" and I don't recall even mentioning anyone's name in particular, yours....I have no problems talking when or where I want, on channel 6, or on any frequency for that matter. I know some folks in Pennsylvania who'll tell you that 2 element talks pretty decent.... I do manage to talk to Wichita several times a week on sideband and 75 watts...a trip of 89 miles.....For some folks, situations only give you a limited number of options available because of space, landlords etc. It's called making do with what you got, the best you can. I CAN afford an 8 element long-john, and I CAN afford a dual 3cx3000 amp...but what for? So I can key on a loud-mouth across town or across the country? My mission in life is to talk skip and I have talked and gotten my name called in every state stateside and 42 countries overseas and I've got the log book to prove it! 99 % of the time, I talk where I want when conditions are in on LESS than 200 watts. If you let your EGO be the driving force in this hobby, you are not only foolish, but are wasting money in a never ending contest of watts. If you are licensed, that kind of foolishness will contribute to your losing your license...If you aren't licensed then you run the risk of someone reporting your behavior and losing your equipment. Thats the price of playing in the sandbox with the "big boys". The "competition never ends....Some violators never make the news...for instance, a certain 30K Harris transmitter and it's owner on the west coast now 27,000 dollars poorer and looking at life from a different perspective. I bow to no-one...I don't have to! Ever since I was a greenhorn in this hobby, many years ago, I've always dreamed of having a 10 acre piece of ground on top of a mountain, for which my closest neighbor was a mile away, and there were no deed restrictions on what I could erect as an antenna structure, nor on the amount and variety of antennas I could erect. And it's always been just that - a dream. Reality paints a different picture however, and it's a humbling experience learning to make due with less than your ideal situation. I spent my first 30 years in the hobby at a place which was in a gentle valley, so I never had line-of-sight distance for more than about 2 or 3 miles and only in one direction. Now I live at 400' above sea level and the difference in coverage is dramatic. But I still can't put up a monster (or multiple) antennas, as my lot is simply too small, and township ordinances would have something to say as well. Despite that, the local people who I want to talk to can all hear me just fine. Sure, with 100' more of tower and 7 more elements, I could probably push their needles well into the red, but unless there's someone trying to jam the channel, this is all wasted signal. It doesn't really "get me" anything more. I really have a hard time trying to understand the mentality of the "king of the hill" types who seem to feel that they're somehow lesser of an operator if they're not burying everyone's needle. If I can make the contact and be copied 100%, that's good enough for me. In fact, as I look back over my years in the hobby, having to make due with lesser equipment has been a far more rewarding experience for me, than if I could have had top shelf stuff from day one. It's how I learned to build things. They say necessity is the mother of invention, and I truly believe that. I can work the world with 10 watts if the conditions are right. 100 watts and it's pretty much a sure thing. Anything more is simply overindulgence. |
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Post by cbrown on Feb 12, 2013 9:34:46 GMT -5
No offense Doc....you may be able to key on the big boys in Kansas, that's great !!! I used to key on them when I had my beam on a top section getting it ready for my main tower !!! Elements were 10' above the ground, your point is taken into consideration !!! If you wanted to talk 150miles down the road what good would that 2 element do??? you would be lucky to be heard on the other side of the neighborhood as low as that thing is....not trying to beat my chest or make a competition out of the 10 element idea, but with all do respect the money, work, and pain in the ass is coming out of my pocket...don't bash my idea or make a joke out of this !!! Relax... No one is telling you what to do, we have offered opinions on what you suggested you wanted to do. Whether or no you follow said advice is up to you. However, flying off the handle at well respected members will gain you no ground here. |
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Post by Night Ranger on Feb 12, 2013 10:04:32 GMT -5
Ok...first off, I could care less about "competition" and I don't recall even mentioning anyone's name in particular, yours....I have no problems talking when or where I want, on channel 6, or on any frequency for that matter. I know some folks in Pennsylvania who'll tell you that 2 element talks pretty decent.... I do manage to talk to Wichita several times a week on sideband and 75 watts...a trip of 89 miles.....For some folks, situations only give you a limited number of options available because of space, landlords etc. It's called making do with what you got, the best you can. I CAN afford an 8 element long-john, and I CAN afford a dual 3cx3000 amp...but what for? So I can key on a loud-mouth across town or across the country? My mission in life is to talk skip and I have talked and gotten my name called in every state stateside and 42 countries overseas and I've got the log book to prove it! 99 % of the time, I talk where I want when conditions are in on LESS than 200 watts. If you let your EGO be the driving force in this hobby, you are not only foolish, but are wasting money in a never ending contest of watts. If you are licensed, that kind of foolishness will contribute to your losing your license...If you aren't licensed then you run the risk of someone reporting your behavior and losing your equipment. Thats the price of playing in the sandbox with the "big boys". The "competition never ends....Some violators never make the news...for instance, a certain 30K Harris transmitter and it's owner on the west coast now 27,000 dollars poorer and looking at life from a different perspective. I bow to no-one...I don't have to! Ever since I was a greenhorn in this hobby, many years ago, I've always dreamed of having a 10 acre piece of ground on top of a mountain, for which my closest neighbor was a mile away, and there were no deed restrictions on what I could erect as an antenna structure, nor on the amount and variety of antennas I could erect. And it's always been just that - a dream. Reality paints a different picture however, and it's a humbling experience learning to make due with less than your ideal situation. I spent my first 30 years in the hobby at a place which was in a gentle valley, so I never had line-of-sight distance for more than about 2 or 3 miles and only in one direction. Now I live at 400' above sea level and the difference in coverage is dramatic. But I still can't put up a monster (or multiple) antennas, as my lot is simply too small, and township ordinances would have something to say as well. Despite that, the local people who I want to talk to can all hear me just fine. Sure, with 100' more of tower and 7 more elements, I could probably push their needles well into the red, but unless there's someone trying to jam the channel, this is all wasted signal. It doesn't really "get me" anything more. I really have a hard time trying to understand the mentality of the "king of the hill" types who seem to feel that they're somehow lesser of an operator if they're not burying everyone's needle. If I can make the contact and be copied 100%, that's good enough for me. In fact, as I look back over my years in the hobby, having to make due with lesser equipment has been a far more rewarding experience for me, than if I could have had top shelf stuff from day one. It's how I learned to build things. They say necessity is the mother of invention, and I truly believe that. I can work the world with 10 watts if the conditions are right. 100 watts and it's pretty much a sure thing. Anything more is simply overindulgence. There are several reasons I enjoy getting over the pileup when the skip is rolling. I look at it as an intellectual challenge. Most CB'ers buy a beam and the usual "pill" amps and power supplies. They have no idea how all that really works. They just do what other people told them would work. I prefer to get over the usual CB set-ups when talking skip by out smarting them. I also enjoying taking a different path. My antennas reflect that. While everyone else is using Antron 99/Solarcon Max-2000s, and the usual beams I am coming out of left field with Lazy H antennas, curtain arrays, and no telling what else. I guess it is like building your own car from scratch, and then watching it out perform the typical Chevy/Ford in a race. If I talked skip with the usual RCI-2950/Galaxy 959/Cobra 29 radio, a Dave Made amp, and the usual Maco/Moonraker I would just be like everyone else. As it stands now I am the only person on the CB I know of that is using Lazy H antennas and a six element curtain array. Most of the hams never attempt a Lazy H much less a six element curtain array. My little D&A Raider is pretty much the same way. There are not many D&A Raiders on the air now, and only a hand full of them are running 22jg6a tubes. I just like taking the different path, and watching it succeed. I also like restoring vintage CB radios and amplifiers, and then seeing the old school stuff sound better and step on the new stuff. Last night the sporadic E skip was rolling hot from the Midwest in to South Carolina. I went on the minor super bowl (channel 26), and I got my name called several times on the first key down with my homemade six element curtain array and my latest D&A amp. There is no telling what kind of power I was up against on that channel. It made me proud to see my homemade wire antenna, that old tube amp, and a 1980 Realistic TRC-422a that I restored make that channel light up at the first keydown. To put it simply, most guys on the DX bowl channels are trying to out buy each other. I'm trying to out smart them. When they get stepped on they go back to the goody store. When I get stepped on I start cracking the antenna books, searching the Internet for more antenna design information, and then I design and build a better antenna. Night Ranger / South Carolina 116 |
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Post by Marc on Feb 12, 2013 10:31:42 GMT -5
Night Ranger you got the room for a rombic??
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Most people that first get on the radio are running ground planes, so I choose to run vertical beam so I can talk local, I don't find that much difference to talk flatside !!!
I bow to no-one...I don't have to!