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Post by ab5ni on Oct 12, 2014 3:48:06 GMT -5
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on Oct 12, 2014 17:50:22 GMT -5
That's from Night Ranger's page...  |
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Post by ab5ni on Oct 12, 2014 20:03:32 GMT -5
That's from Night Ranger's page... Well, that'a about right. You rock, Night Ranger!  . I especially like the yagi for a mobile antenna. If I wasn't so bloody honest and was interested in ripping folks off, I would have made all the radials yagi's and put some kind of "directional switch box" on the thing and listed it for $1500.00 on my web site . Have a great name for such an antenna: "The Super Duper," with MAJOR emphasis on "Duper." 73, Randy AB5NI |
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Post by Night Ranger on Oct 13, 2014 7:40:45 GMT -5
That's from Night Ranger's page... Well, that'a about right. You rock, Night Ranger! . I especially like the yagi for a mobile antenna. If I wasn't so bloody honest and was interested in ripping folks off, I would have made all the radials yagi's and put some kind of "directional switch box" on the thing and listed it for $1500.00 on my web site . Have a great name for such an antenna: "The Super Duper," with MAJOR emphasis on "Duper." 73, Randy AB5NI You should check out that guy's web page. His "mobile beam antenna" models are a riot. Check out this model. www.stargun.cc/photos/images/US%20MAILMANb.jpgThis is his home page. www.stargun.ccHa! Night Ranger |
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on Oct 13, 2014 8:51:58 GMT -5
Well, that'a about right. You rock, Night Ranger! . I especially like the yagi for a mobile antenna. If I wasn't so bloody honest and was interested in ripping folks off, I would have made all the radials yagi's and put some kind of "directional switch box" on the thing and listed it for $1500.00 on my web site . Have a great name for such an antenna: "The Super Duper," with MAJOR emphasis on "Duper." 73, Randy AB5NI You should check out that guy's web page. His "mobile beam antenna" models are a riot. Check out this model. www.stargun.cc/photos/images/US%20MAILMANb.jpgThis is his home page. www.stargun.ccHa! It never fails to amaze me that people actually fall for this obvious display of snake oil. Those mobile "beams" might work if they were running 400 Mhz, but no way at 27 Mhz. |
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Post by ab5ni on Oct 13, 2014 12:03:07 GMT -5
It never fails to amaze me that people actually fall for this obvious display of snake oil. Those mobile "beams" might work if they were running 400 Mhz, but no way at 27 Mhz. I checked out their page. Went to the pictures section, and went to truckers folder, looking at all the "installations" on those trucks. I was drinking coffee, and I nearly spewed coffee all over my computer, monitor, and keyboard when I started laughing . I wonder if those guys installing that crap on their vehicles understand that their "directional yagi" is actually a "radial" -- I mention one as this VERY loosely here!! -- and that it is actually supporting the vertical element of the antenna and nothing more. Actually, it's probably distorting the pattern in all kinds of weird ways. There is actually a financial opportunity here, NR. Set up a page on your website that shows those guys the correct way to install 1/4 wave verticals. Run radials from each vertical to the front of their trucks, and then tie them off at the bumper. Hang a counterpoise line off each vertical and their antenna coupler as well. With the massive ground plane those trucks have, I'm not too sure it would actually make any difference, but at least their rigs would load up a bit better . Sell them an installation kit for $50.00, and with all the page hits you get when the word gets out, you'll probably make more money from advertising . Years ago, I actually thought about installing quarter-wave verticals on a vehicle, driving the things in phase while rolling down the road, and when parked using a delay line or an LC Phaser for a bit of directivity. Would also put out a few counterpoise lines on each vertical while stationary. When it was all said and done, I figured it was just WAY too much hassle and running mobile was a compromise, in and of itself, so why bother. If I want or need directivity, I'll just set something like that up where it should be setup -- at home on a base station. We actually "tried" this on our motorhome with delay lines, but we didn't have too much success. No radials, no matching stubs, and no transmatch, so all we could really to is listen to rig. If we wanted to operate, we used the original phasing harness and drove the verticals in phase. When I say I wanted to try this, I was talking about putting that setup on a car or pickup. Too much damn trouble. 73, Randy AB5NI |
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Post by ab5ni on Oct 13, 2014 12:07:20 GMT -5
It never fails to amaze me that people actually fall for this obvious display of snake oil. Those mobile "beams" might work if they were running 400 Mhz, but no way at 27 Mhz. He probably has some kind of "technical explanation" on this, saying that the yagi is 1/32nd of a wave length or some other kind of BS . 73, Randy AB5NI |
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Post by ab5ni on Oct 13, 2014 13:00:36 GMT -5
It never fails to amaze me that people actually fall for this obvious display of snake oil. Those mobile "beams" might work if they were running 400 Mhz, but no way at 27 Mhz. He probably has some kind of "technical explanation" on this, saying that the yagi is 1/32nd of a wave length or some other kind of BS . 73, Randy AB5NI Well, I went to the website, and I can't find a link to any Smith Chart, ELNEC, or EZNEC output. Maybe he took them down or something, knowing that guys like us would call him out on such baloney. Years ago on 10 Mtrs, I used to talk to the dude that eventually came out with fractal-based antennas, known today as the "Fractenna." People would break into our conversation and say he was full of all kinds of BS; that is, until he was proven to be correct and sold his designs to the cellular industry. OTOH, I will in no way attribute anything even close to this to these antennas, which are pure and utter crap! 73, Randy AB5NI |
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on Oct 13, 2014 13:41:21 GMT -5
It never fails to amaze me that people actually fall for this obvious display of snake oil. Those mobile "beams" might work if they were running 400 Mhz, but no way at 27 Mhz. Years ago, I actually thought about installing quarter-wave verticals on a vehicle, driving the things in phase while rolling down the road, and when parked using a delay line or an LC Phaser for a bit of directivity. Would also put out a few counterpoise lines on each vertical while stationary. CB'ers do something similar to this all the time, although not with that level of sophistication. What they do is buy up long vehicles (like a Chevy Suburban or a full size van), put a coil loaded vertical toward the front of the body, with a passive reflector at the very rear of the body. They do this to introduce a deliberate directional lobe toward the front of the vehicle primarily to give a little more gain for purposes of maximizing signal during a keydown contest. During the contest is is also not uncommon to add additional directors off of the front of the vehicle for even more gain. Of course, a directional pattern like that on a mobile would not be preferable for normal driving around, but some still do it. Spitfire uses an old Hy-Gain co-phaser to drive 2 Imax-2000 base antennas. He has a choice between east, west, and broadside patterns. It actually achieves nulls in specific directions which could be fine tuned by varying the length of the feedline ever so slightly. This came in handy when we used to deal with a particularly annoying miscreant a few years back who just happened to fall into one of the deepest nulls. It was nice to be able to erase the 20db gain of his amplifier with a simple antenna trick. |
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Post by ab5ni on Oct 13, 2014 14:37:54 GMT -5
Years ago, I actually thought about installing quarter-wave verticals on a vehicle, driving the things in phase while rolling down the road, and when parked using a delay line or an LC Phaser for a bit of directivity. Would also put out a few counterpoise lines on each vertical while stationary. CB'ers do something similar to this all the time, although not with that level of sophistication. What they do is buy up long vehicles (like a Chevy Suburban or a full size van), put a coil loaded vertical toward the front of the body, with a passive reflector at the very rear of the body. They do this to introduce a deliberate directional lobe toward the front of the vehicle primarily to give a little more gain for purposes of maximizing signal during a keydown contest. During the contest is is also not uncommon to add additional directors off of the front of the vehicle for even more gain. Of course, a directional pattern like that on a mobile would not be preferable for normal driving around, but some still do it. Spitfire uses an old Hy-Gain co-phaser to drive 2 Imax-2000 base antennas. He has a choice between east, west, and broadside patterns. It actually achieves nulls in specific directions which could be fine tuned by varying the length of the feedline ever so slightly. This came in handy when we used to deal with a particularly annoying miscreant a few years back who just happened to fall into one of the deepest nulls. It was nice to be able to erase the 20db gain of his amplifier with a simple antenna trick. Hmmm.. Now I'm wondering if these "keydown contestants" wouldn't be better off just installing a normal set of phased verticals and using an LC Phaser. Doing it that way, they could just tune the antenna for maximum forward gain electrically. I guess they could also "hang" a reflector off the back of the thing, for "good measure." . Actually, I good figure 8 would be great for a rig like that while going down the road. Should they strike up a conversation with someone ahead of them and want to still chat with them after they pass, the figure 8 should hold up for a while. Should they start losing signal on the person they are chatting with, just flip the thing in the opposite direction for bit of gain. If I was a full-time coast-to-coast trucker, that's the setup I'd probably be using, although I'm not really sure you could get proper antenna alignment and spacing on just the tractor portion on the thing. I guess the best thing to do, in that situation, would be to install that setup on the trailer with magnetic mounts and radials. Might not be that much of a pain to do this and worth the trouble, especially if you were bringing that particular trailer cross country. (Shrug.) Sounds like spitfire's co-phaser is a delay-line setup for 27-MHz. Personally, I'd suggest that he builds and installs an LC Phaser. Then he'll be able to "steer" the array and take out stations like that almost completely. It's a very simple circuit, and he should be able to locate one on the web, no problem. If he can't find a schematic, I'll see if I can locate my schematic, draw it up in MS Paint, and post it on DropBox or e-mail those interested. You guys should be able to locate the schematic on the web, though. 73, Randy AB5NI |
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Post by MonkeyMan on Oct 13, 2014 19:29:42 GMT -5
Geez Louise, that's a pretty harsh preface. Suggesting that anyone operating a CB radio should learn radio theory is like suggesting that anyone who operates a car or truck should study to be an auto technician. I mean just think of all the "snake oil" products and automotive myths floating around out there.  |
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on Oct 13, 2014 21:07:49 GMT -5
Geez Louise, that's a pretty harsh preface. Suggesting that anyone operating a CB radio should learn radio theory is like suggesting that anyone who operates a car or truck should study to be an auto technician. I mean just think of all the "snake oil" products and automotive myths floating around out there. You mean like pellets you put in your gas tank to increase your MPG? |
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Post by ab5ni on Oct 13, 2014 22:16:51 GMT -5
Geez Louise, that's a pretty harsh preface. Suggesting that anyone operating a CB radio should learn radio theory is like suggesting that anyone who operates a car or truck should study to be an auto technician. I mean just think of all the "snake oil" products and automotive myths floating around out there. You mean like pellets you put in your gas tank to increase your MPG? Personally, I think everyone has their forte' in life, with some being comfortable in technical fields, and others in arts, entertainment, photography, writing, Law, or whatever other areas u can think up. As far as Night Ranger's site is concerned, it is technically accurate. Don't be offended, MM. At least somebody wrote a web page that is trying to save folks their hard-earned cash by not being ripped off, and he's educating those that just don't have time to learn these kind of things. Also take note that NR, SB, and I work in technical fields and understand this stuff, so when we see somebody trying to use and abuse the public and them falling for it, we are somewhat amused. The bottom line here is that we totally and completely hate these miscreants (to borrow a term that SB uses ), and we actually want to see these morons go broke. Also, with us talking about this here on the web, others might find their way here, read his page, and learn a bit in the process, avoiding purchases that actually make their radios operate much less efficiently. 73, Randy AB5NI |
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on Oct 14, 2014 6:59:17 GMT -5
You mean like pellets you put in your gas tank to increase your MPG? Personally, I think everyone has their forte' in life, with some being comfortable in technical fields, and others in arts, entertainment, photography, writing, Law, or whatever other areas u can think up. As far as Night Ranger's site is concerned, it is technically accurate. Don't be offended, MM. At lease somebody wrote a web page that is trying to save folks their hard-earned cash by not being ripped off, and he's educating those that just don't have time to learn these kind of things. Also take note that NR, SB, and I work in technical fields and understand this stuff, so when we see somebody trying to use and abuse the public and them falling for it, we are somewhat amused. The bottom line here is that we totally and completely hate these miscreants (to borrow a term that SB uses ), and we actually want to see these morons go broke. Also, with us talking about this here on the web, others might find their way here, read his page, and learn a bit in the process, avoiding purchases that actually make their radios operate much less efficiently. 73, Randy AB5NI I tend to agree that there is a lot of snake oil in the CB arena, due to the fact that some unscrupulous people look to take advantage of the RF ignorance of many CB ops in order to make fast money. But it's also true that if you come off sounding "holier-than-thou", it tends to turn off these same op's, who would rather deal with snake oil hustlers who talk to them like regular guys, than a technical guru who dictates from an ivory tower. It's a hard line to walk. No one wants to hear that they were taken advantage of, and the facts are often bitter pills to swallow. But how you present the truth is often more important than the facts themselves. |
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Post by Night Ranger on Oct 14, 2014 7:57:39 GMT -5
Personally, I think everyone has their forte' in life, with some being comfortable in technical fields, and others in arts, entertainment, photography, writing, Law, or whatever other areas u can think up. As far as Night Ranger's site is concerned, it is technically accurate. Don't be offended, MM. At lease somebody wrote a web page that is trying to save folks their hard-earned cash by not being ripped off, and he's educating those that just don't have time to learn these kind of things. Also take note that NR, SB, and I work in technical fields and understand this stuff, so when we see somebody trying to use and abuse the public and them falling for it, we are somewhat amused. The bottom line here is that we totally and completely hate these miscreants (to borrow a term that SB uses ), and we actually want to see these morons go broke. Also, with us talking about this here on the web, others might find their way here, read his page, and learn a bit in the process, avoiding purchases that actually make their radios operate much less efficiently. 73, Randy AB5NI I tend to agree that there is a lot of snake oil in the CB arena, due to the fact that some unscrupulous people look to take advantage of the RF ignorance of many CB ops in order to make fast money. But it's also true that if you come off sounding "holier-than-thou", it tends to turn off these same op's, who would rather deal with snake oil hustlers who talk to them like regular guys, than a technical guru who dictates from an ivory tower. It's a hard line to walk. No one wants to hear that they were taken advantage of, and the facts are often bitter pills to swallow. But how you present the truth is often more important than the facts themselves. That's true. Perhaps I should "tone down" the preface on my "myths" page. The one thing that CB'ers do that gets my goat is when I see them destroy a nice amp. I really wanted to get my hands on this guy's Henry 2K Console a few years ago. He decided to sell it for $500 while I was out of town. $500 dollars! I would have been all over that if he had told me. He was hurting for cash. Anyway this Gastonia, N.C. hillbilly bought it and tried to drive the two 3-500z tubes in the Henry with one 3-500z from another amp. The Henry only lasted a week before both the tubes and the tuned input on the Henry 2K Console was toast. I also cringed at the Drake L-4B being over driven in the YouTube video I posted a few weeks back. That is a nice amp. Some people are just too stupid to be given a nice radio or amp. They will just destroy it. Night Ranger |
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Post by ab5ni on Oct 14, 2014 12:00:37 GMT -5
You are totally right, SB, which is why I "try" not to come off as some "know it all" when it comes to RF design and operating practices. Everyone in my family (excluding me) is an educator. I could have easily followed that path, but, quite frankly, I didn't feel like getting a PhD and then being ripped off financially. Not only that, but my Dad raised me to be a geek/nerd, and education wasn't paying anywhere near what I could make in the oilfield, even when I was working part time in the field as an undergraduate. Suffice it to say that, although I'm not an educator, I do get a kick out of taking something difficult and explaining it to lay-mined individuals, hoping they walk away with something they can actually use and understand. Further along this line, if I even thought of myself as a "ham with a superior attitude," the absolute LAST place I'd be is on a CB board! Don't think for a moment that a lot of hams are going to read this and wonder what the hell I'm doing posting here, but I could give a flying crap what they think. When I'm on this site, what I see are kindred spirits that enjoy using radios, and that's the bottom line for me.
I also realize that there will be varying degrees of technical "know how" while I'm on this site or even the ham sites. EE is not my field and is totally a hobby for me, although I must admit that I've studied the area and had great mentors. What I think SB, NR, and I (plus others here that don't speak up very often) have done that differs from the non-tech guys is have insatiable curiosity on the subject and have spent a lot of time reading up on RF and electronics. I'm pretty sure we all agree that some folks just don't have time to do such things, worrying about other aspects in their lives. No problem. I guess what we all have to consider here is this: are we helping you? That will be the bottom line for a lot of folks here. Diagnosing radio issues just so happens to be a technical subject, and there is no getting around that, so please give those that answer questions here a bit of leeway and latitude. On top of all that, trying to solve an issue is DAMN difficult without actually having the rig right in front of us, although we can make some educated guesses with a schematic or by actually knowing a bit about the rig in question. Also, CB and Ham radio are technical hobbies, whether we like that or not, and most of the time questions related to these subjects are going to be technical in nature, requiring a technical response, whether we all like that or not as well.
It is also important to note that we could be getting on here and other sites and telling folks, "No! You're doing that all wrong! What u need to do is drive that 8 pill with another 8 pill, make sure you are using a DOSY meter, and 110% modulation is required," hoping they'll listen to us so we can purchase these busted amps for a song on EBay, craigslist, or a local hamfest. If we just so happen to bring up something that you've been doing that isn't technically accurate and we save you from blowing up your amp or destroying your radio, then suck it up, quit doing it, and thank God you won't be digging in your pocket to solve these issues.
I will NOT EVER apologize for understanding technical issues and trying to save someone from destroying their equipment or possibly killing themselves; furthermore, radio operation, especially when dealing with amplifiers, antennas, and tube rigs, can be an EXTREMELY dangerous environment, and you can be killed instantly and mercilessly in the flick on an eye. Hundreds of people die each year playing with this stuff, btw.
73,
Randy AB5NI
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Sandbagger
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Post by Sandbagger on Oct 14, 2014 15:31:57 GMT -5
I tend to agree that there is a lot of snake oil in the CB arena, due to the fact that some unscrupulous people look to take advantage of the RF ignorance of many CB ops in order to make fast money. But it's also true that if you come off sounding "holier-than-thou", it tends to turn off these same op's, who would rather deal with snake oil hustlers who talk to them like regular guys, than a technical guru who dictates from an ivory tower. It's a hard line to walk. No one wants to hear that they were taken advantage of, and the facts are often bitter pills to swallow. But how you present the truth is often more important than the facts themselves. That's true. Perhaps I should "tone down" the preface on my "myths" page. The one thing that CB'ers do that gets my goat is when I see them destroy a nice amp. I really wanted to get my hands on this guy's Henry 2K Console a few years ago. He decided to sell it for $500 while I was out of town. $500 dollars! I would have been all over that if he had told me. He was hurting for cash. Anyway this Gastonia, N.C. hillbilly bought it and tried to drive the two 3-500z tubes in the Henry with one 3-500z from another amp. The Henry only lasted a week before both the tubes and the tuned input on the Henry 2K Console was toast. I also cringed at the Drake L-4B being over driven in the YouTube video I posted a few weeks back. That is a nice amp. Some people are just too stupid to be given a nice radio or amp. They will just destroy it. It's the RF equivalent of natural selection at work. It's also the reason why so many power jockeys out there seem to prefer solid state amps to tube amps. When solid state amps blow, there is often copious amounts of smoke, but if there is proper fusing, not much fanfare. When tube amps blow, often times it is accompanied by sparks, loud explosions, and high voltage, and that scares the crap out of the unknowing (it scares the crap out of me too, when I'm not expecting it  ). |
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. I especially like the yagi for a mobile antenna. If I wasn't so bloody honest and was interested in ripping folks off, I would have made all the radials yagi's and put some kind of "directional switch box" on the thing and listed it for $1500.00 on my web site 
).