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Post by olemanla on Jun 15, 2015 14:13:01 GMT -5
I have a couple Browning Golden Eagles, a Mark IV and a Mark IVA, that I bought from a silent key's collection. Both are very very clean radios. I have gone through the Mark IVA, inspected and tested all the Caps. The caps look brand new, bright and shiny, with no cracks or any other signs of age, I originally did not check all the resistors for spec, but took the set back apart and testes each to make sure they were in spec.
I already have a lot of time invested in that IVA,and of course I want top price I can get out of the set, but should I replace the Caps even though I can find nothing wrong with them? Do I need to replace the carbon resistors? I have given this radio a lot of TLC as this project has been a labor of love and I want to find it a good home, but want to make sure it will provide many years of service.
How should I proceed with this to get the top dollar? What should be top dollar?
Now I am working on the Mark IV, it is being a pain in the butt! It never went back to the factory to get the upgrade to the IVA. I was really hoping 2600 had spare parts for his famous mod laying around, but sadly he is running a year or more behind on getting a new mod out. Any suggestions on how to proceed on it?
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Post by KneeBiter on Jun 15, 2015 16:09:11 GMT -5
Are you Harold?
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Post by BBB on Jun 15, 2015 18:44:58 GMT -5
If the IVA works and you're just going to sell it, I would just mention in the ad that "as with any older radio equipment, the caps may need to be replaced sometime in the future."
Are you going to make up the $$$ difference in asking price for the $60 in caps and numerous hours in labor needed to replace them? Heck $60 won't even cover replacing the caps with the factory "multicaps". You know those large silver cans go for $50 ea. nowadays.
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Post by KneeBiter on Jun 15, 2015 18:54:25 GMT -5
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Post by olemanla on Jun 15, 2015 23:40:35 GMT -5
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Post by olemanla on Jun 15, 2015 23:48:21 GMT -5
If the IVA works and you're just going to sell it, I would just mention in the ad that "as with any older radio equipment, the caps may need to be replaced sometime in the future." Are you going to make up the $$$ difference in asking price for the $60 in caps and numerous hours in labor needed to replace them? Heck $60 won't even cover replacing the caps with the factory "multicaps". You know those large silver cans go for $50 ea. nowadays. I have taken that advice to heart and made that change.
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Post by olemanla on Jun 15, 2015 23:57:18 GMT -5
If he is Harold and the one selling it on Ebay I think he is way over priced with the asking. A non recapped radio and no carbon resistors checked or changed in the radio and a complete alignment to factory specs from a known tech is a tough sell in todays Vintage radio market. I am interested in it but no where near the ebay prices. I think the asking price comes from seeing the superhawk listings that are way out of line. Here is the radio I mentioned on Ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BROWNING-GOLDEN-EAGLE-MARK-IV-A-SSB-AM-Base-Station-40-Channels-/161732403983?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a800a30fWell, I certainly not going to be giving that beauty away. I am still struggling with myself about simply keeping it. There is a make offer on the listing, The voltages check perfectlyjust like the service manual calls for. The Cap checked. I have hours of time lovingly invested. you interested, talk to me 318.five0317seven1 make me a fair offer..... just understand I will not give this baby away.
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Post by BBB on Jun 16, 2015 7:42:29 GMT -5
Saw that ad on the bay earlier in the week. Small town isn't it I also see what looks like a home brew rack mount RF amp in the background of one of the eBay ad photos.
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Post by cbrown on Jun 16, 2015 9:03:05 GMT -5
I see no mention about the caps in your ebay listing. With a unit as old as that, it's not IF but WHEN the caps fail.
I'd at least mention in your listing that they are the original caps.
Also, when you say 'gone through', does this mean you've only tested the caps and resistors?
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Post by KneeBiter on Jun 16, 2015 16:33:41 GMT -5
To me gone through means, All electrolytic caps replaced. ALL. All carbon resistors checked and any out replaced. Every one replaced even better. All tubes removed, Checked and replaced if needed. Closing the contacts on the tube sockets as you mentioned is only a temporary fix. The heat cycles will open them again. All controls cleaned. All updates done. And a factory spec alignment using the correct equipment.
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Post by olemanla on Jun 16, 2015 19:04:53 GMT -5
To me gone through means, All electrolytic caps replaced. ALL. All carbon resistors checked and any out replaced. Every one replaced even better. All tubes removed, Checked and replaced if needed. Closing the contacts on the tube sockets as you mentioned is only a temporary fix. The heat cycles will open them again. All controls cleaned. All updates done. And a factory spec alignment using the correct equipment. fine... that radio is not for you then! No skin off my back!
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Post by KneeBiter on Jun 16, 2015 19:21:02 GMT -5
I detect anger.
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Post by KneeBiter on Jun 16, 2015 19:25:10 GMT -5
Not throwing stones. Not raining on your parade. Just telling my opinion of gone through. I have noticed a big drop in want for the older tube rigs as of late. Seems everybody wants the newer radios. I myself love vintage tubes and vintage aluminum to get out. And you might want to take some clearer in focus pics of the radio. From what I see and what you say you have done the radio is worth less than half of what you are asking. But there is always someone that will pay. Just have to hold on and wait.
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Post by olemanla on Jun 16, 2015 20:06:04 GMT -5
I see no mention about the caps in your ebay listing. With a unit as old as that, it's not IF but WHEN the caps fail. I'd at least mention in your listing that they are the original caps. Also, when you say 'gone through', does this mean you've only tested the caps and resistors? Really? Do you really expect all caps and resistors to be totally removed checked individually and soldiered back in place? Greg, doesn't do that... why would you expect me to? Browning has flow sheets to follow when reworking a radio... It like binary code you follow it and if the out come is this you do that if not you do another. I can't say the caps are original as the man who's collection this radio came form, had sent this radio to Barkett's several times.... Have you seen Greg's work? It is pretty much indistinguishable from the factory line work. For all I know those Caps could have been changed the last time it went Alabama. I can't say they were either as I honestly do not know. All I know for certain is they tested good! And even if they were changed 2 years ago when it was at Barkett's, there is still no certainty that the at least one won't go bad in the next couple of years. Is the radio worth what I am asking? I don't know, it cost $895 new and has now become a classic. What happens to prime examples of anything classic? The prices rise! Take cars for example, a car that in 1965 sold for $2555.00 (Ford Mustang) one would have a hard time buying a ragged out 65 Mustang for twice that price. Why should our pride and joy radios be any different? Am I being greedy? Maybe, but I did list it where one can make an offer... And the more I "test" it the less certain I am that I really want to sell it. In my opinion this is a fine radio and I expect it will give years of service, and make someone a prideful possession.
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Post by olemanla on Jun 16, 2015 20:20:09 GMT -5
Not throwing stones. Not raining on your parade. Just telling my opinion of gone through. I have noticed a big drop in want for the older tube rigs as of late. Seems everybody wants the newer radios. I myself love vintage tubes and vintage aluminum to get out. And you might want to take some clearer in focus pics of the radio. From what I see and what you say you have done the radio is worth less than half of what you are asking. But there is always someone that will pay. Just have to hold on and wait. We will simply have to agree to disagree on value. If the Radio sells it sells, if it doesn't... I will have to add on a little more square footage to the Radio Room.
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Post by cbrown on Jun 17, 2015 10:01:01 GMT -5
Really? Do you really expect all caps and resistors to be totally removed checked individually and soldiered back in place? Greg, doesn't do that... why would you expect me to? Browning has flow sheets to follow when reworking a radio... It like binary code you follow it and if the out come is this you do that if not you do another. I'm well aware of what is involved, Barkett did both my Mark III and Mark IVA for their '1,000,000 mile tuneup'. And doing a proper alignment requires a bit more than just verifying binary code. Believe it or not, some of us even have the proper test equipment to do so. I can't say the caps are original as the man who's collection this radio came form, had sent this radio to Barkett's several times.... Have you seen Greg's work? It is pretty much indistinguishable from the factory line work. For all I know those Caps could have been changed the last time it went Alabama. I can't say they were either as I honestly do not know. All I know for certain is they tested good! And even if they were changed 2 years ago when it was at Barkett's, there is still no certainty that the at least one won't go bad in the next couple of years. If it was at Barkett's that much, why not mention it in your Ebay ad then? And if you don't know what was changed or when it was changed, call Barkett.
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Post by 2600 on Jun 17, 2015 23:21:34 GMT -5
First thing I ask a customer before servicing a 38 year-old radio is whether he plans to sell it or keep it.
A radio with extremely low mileage won't need those caps replaced just to make it work. If those same parts were still in the package, never installed in a radio they would probably all check just fine when you pull them off the shelf and out of the box. Those parts will seldom go bad on the shelf.
But once the radio is put into use, the miles begin to matter.
More to the point, once you put it back on the road, all those 38 year-old electrolytic caps will begin to "remember" how old they are and begin to fail in the first few months or year of regular use.
SO, if you want to sell it, you only care if it functions well enough to demonstrate and sell. All that long-term upkeep stuff now becomes the buyer's problem.
Then again, the occasional customer comes back six months later unhappy because the radio that we patched up to sell has broken down. One or more of those electrolytic caps has gone bad. I ask him why he didn't sell it like he told me he would. "I got it home and decided I kike the radio" is the typical answer. Before long, his amnesia about asking for the "patch it cheap to sell" repair job begins to fade. Especially when I bring up my copy of his repair invoice. I have learned to list the things that we did NOT do for the "patch it cheap" job, along with what he would have had to spend if he had taken care of that stuff at the time.
Putting it in writing on the invoice leaves him the option of either reading it or ignoring it. It's his choice.
The Mark 4 will cost you a bundle, just to patch it up cheap, even if the mileage is under 500.
The Mark 4A is a better design. If it spent its whole life up to now on a shelf, covered up and was never used regularly it could very well function just fine for many months before it "remembers" the last 38 years.
Just why a seller should spend that kind of money without the clear incentive of a higher resale price is not so clear to me. If your objective is to get the best money you can for it, logic would suggest you not spend a bundle on it. Especially if it won't change how well the radio works when it's demonstrated. And if it won't boost the sale price, it's money down the drain.
And a buyer who is not clued in to these details and the reality of a radio nearly 40 years old has nobody to blame but himself when the radio takes a hike 3 months after he puts it in line.
My favorite comparison is to a 1977 car found under a tarp in a barn with 600 original miles. It may run with air to the tires, fuel and a radiator fill.
How far it will drive before all the 40 year-old belts, hoses, gaskets, seals, tires and bushings must be replaced is another matter entirely. A block? A mile? A hundred?
Sometimes the best place to start is to define the objective. Is it to maximize the money you make selling it? Or to restore a classic antique. Just the phrase "classic antique" tells you it won't be cheap, no matter what item is up for sale. Of course a Browning will be cheaper to fix up than a car or motorcycle. Same principles apply, more or less.
73
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Post by No Streak on Jun 22, 2015 20:12:03 GMT -5
First thing I ask a customer before servicing a 38 year-old radio is whether he plans to sell it or keep it. A radio with extremely low mileage won't need those caps replaced just to make it work. If those same parts were still in the package, never installed in a radio they would probably all check just fine when you pull them off the shelf and out of the box. Those parts will seldom go bad on the shelf. But once the radio is put into use, the miles begin to matter. More to the point, once you put it back on the road, all those 38 year-old electrolytic caps will begin to "remember" how old they are and begin to fail in the first few months or year of regular use. SO, if you want to sell it, you only care if it functions well enough to demonstrate and sell. All that long-term upkeep stuff now becomes the buyer's problem. Then again, the occasional customer comes back six months later unhappy because the radio that we patched up to sell has broken down. One or more of those electrolytic caps has gone bad. I ask him why he didn't sell it like he told me he would. "I got it home and decided I kike the radio" is the typical answer. Before long, his amnesia about asking for the "patch it cheap to sell" repair job begins to fade. Especially when I bring up my copy of his repair invoice. I have learned to list the things that we did NOT do for the "patch it cheap" job, along with what he would have had to spend if he had taken care of that stuff at the time. Putting it in writing on the invoice leaves him the option of either reading it or ignoring it. It's his choice. The Mark 4 will cost you a bundle, just to patch it up cheap, even if the mileage is under 500. The Mark 4A is a better design. If it spent its whole life up to now on a shelf, covered up and was never used regularly it could very well function just fine for many months before it "remembers" the last 38 years. Just why a seller should spend that kind of money without the clear incentive of a higher resale price is not so clear to me. If your objective is to get the best money you can for it, logic would suggest you not spend a bundle on it. Especially if it won't change how well the radio works when it's demonstrated. And if it won't boost the sale price, it's money down the drain. And a buyer who is not clued in to these details and the reality of a radio nearly 40 years old has nobody to blame but himself when the radio takes a hike 3 months after he puts it in line. My favorite comparison is to a 1977 car found under a tarp in a barn with 600 original miles. It may run with air to the tires, fuel and a radiator fill. How far it will drive before all the 40 year-old belts, hoses, gaskets, seals, tires and bushings must be replaced is another matter entirely. A block? A mile? A hundred? Sometimes the best place to start is to define the objective. Is it to maximize the money you make selling it? Or to restore a classic antique. Just the phrase "classic antique" tells you it won't be cheap, no matter what item is up for sale. Of course a Browning will be cheaper to fix up than a car or motorcycle. Same principles apply, more or less. 73 Hmmm I thought that was all the fun in having a 38 year old radio. Having problems like smacking the top to get the Transmitter working again! Burnt resistors, blown caps, off frequency, and worn out tubes. And the radios that stay on shelf are called ( Shelf Queens) kinda like them car's that never get driven just rolled off the truck. Some people try to flip radios pay dirt cheap for them do no work on them and sell them for top dollar because they suppose to be rare what a joke!
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Post by 2600 on Jun 24, 2015 0:30:55 GMT -5
Like I said, define the objective. A car you have to pull over and tinker under the hood halfway home from work is okay if you like that sort of thing.
Working for hire, the objective is to first find out what the customer wants from his very old equipment. If it's your own radio, you can decide later. Not the same thing.
But to expect "rebuilt" performance from a specimen full of stuff designed to wear out in 10 or 20 years is not realistic.
And if reliability is not a concern, this is a cheaper objective to meet. The process of replacing 40 year-old electrolytic caps as they go bad one or two at a time is what I call "electronic Whack-a-Mole". The labor to change one or two at a time will rack up to more than changing them all at once would total. I do get requests for that. "Just change the one that went bad". No problem if that's what he wants.
If you expect to rely on it, you'll have to be proactive, replacing parts that don't check bad yet. The ones that routinely go bad are no big trick to identify after you have repaired the first couple of hundred units.
Even so, doing a 'scorched earth' style of 100,000-mile tuneup only improves the chance of reliable service. Other stuff can still go wrong.
Ask the engineer who designed the parts used inside if they guessed the radio would see regular service 40 years in the future. You may need a time machine, since all of them have likely passed on by now. Even so, I don't think that guy would have anticipated it.
Wasn't on their list of design objectives, if I'm right.
And if you just like to tinker, maybe it's a good thing if it breaks down from time to time.
73
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Post by No Streak on Jun 24, 2015 14:05:31 GMT -5
Like I said, define the objective. A car you have to pull over and tinker under the hood halfway home from work is okay if you like that sort of thing. Working for hire, the objective is to first find out what the customer wants from his very old equipment. If it's your own radio, you can decide later. Not the same thing. But to expect "rebuilt" performance from a specimen full of stuff designed to wear out in 10 or 20 years is not realistic. And if reliability is not a concern, this is a cheaper objective to meet. The process of replacing 40 year-old electrolytic caps as they go bad one or two at a time is what I call "electronic Whack-a-Mole". The labor to change one or two at a time will rack up to more than changing them all at once would total. I do get requests for that. "Just change the one that went bad". No problem if that's what he wants. If you expect to rely on it, you'll have to be proactive, replacing parts that don't check bad yet. The ones that routinely go bad are no big trick to identify after you have repaired the first couple of hundred units. Even so, doing a 'scorched earth' style of 100,000-mile tuneup only improves the chance of reliable service. Other stuff can still go wrong. Ask the engineer who designed the parts used inside if they guessed the radio would see regular service 40 years in the future. You may need a time machine, since all of them have likely passed on by now. Even so, I don't think that guy would have anticipated it. Wasn't on their list of design objectives, if I'm right. And if you just like to tinker, maybe it's a good thing if it breaks down from time to time. 73 What is the price of a full rebuilt Browning MkIV about $800 plus labor maybe higher? I done some work on a MkIV that was a parts radio and had to do hours of rewiring work inside the Transmitter, blown chip alot of things done that weren't right. Did what I could do then sent it to Barket for the rest still cost me $290 for to get it working again. But was it worth it yes to see that radio come back to life again! And I understand on your side servicing them radios takes time. And have to make choice to do it right or deal with shortcuts that cost you more down the road.
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Post by olemanla on Jun 25, 2015 8:06:34 GMT -5
2600,
What was the underlying problem with the Mark IV's? The one I am working with now, that has just about driven me nuts, had blown a diode and transistor in the voltage regulator in the receiver which caused a -41 volts to reach pins of the IC chip, in the transmitter, that should have only had -7 volts . And being as I can't seem to get my hands on the "now" highly prized Nomad Radio PLL Synthesizer. What would you suggest to correct the PLL situation?
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Post by mark4 on Aug 17, 2015 21:03:49 GMT -5
I have a whole mess of parts for Mark IV/VA PLL's and readout boards.. Every now and then someone contacts me and requests I service it. I'm not actively seeking out repair work.
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