**GRUMPY**
Administrator/The Boss 
Classic Radio Operator Olde Timer 8220 [/color][/center]
"The King of Ping"
Posts: 4,342
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Post by **GRUMPY** on Jul 16, 2008 15:24:43 GMT -5
Just like to know what others do. For the most part I keep my Browning Mark IVA on almost all of the time. I do turn it off when I leave the house which is very seldom. My other tube radios I turn on once per week!
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Post by bioman on Jul 16, 2008 16:57:33 GMT -5
i usually try to power mine up at least 15 minutes before i want to use it...even if it means talking on somehing else for those 15 minutes...
all mine are on for a MINIMUM of 2 or 3 hours a week.....
i usually try to run the box at least once a week too whether i need it or not...
i also unplug the robyn when im not using it so the heaters <which dont shut off unless you unplug it> dont eat up my electric bill
scott
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Post by lugnut526 on Jul 16, 2008 21:03:34 GMT -5
when i am home the radio is on, usually one of my sonars
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Post by spitfire441 on Jul 17, 2008 0:46:41 GMT -5
If I know I'll be in the shack more than one hour, I use a tube rig, less than an hour or in and out, its solid state. did I just say solid state?  |
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Post by Afterburner(OT-749) on Jul 17, 2008 4:24:10 GMT -5
I guess I should have voted for leaving it on most of the time. I am not even at home (work causes me to travel) and I know my MK III is on. I leave it on most all the time unless we go on vacation or away for an extended amount of time.
I was always told that turning them on and off is harder on the tubes than just leaving them stay warm and ready. Maybe one of our tube experts will share their advice???
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Post by BionicChicken on Jul 17, 2008 7:01:08 GMT -5
Unless I am leaving the house for an extended period of time or the weather is bad mine stays on all the time. I guess I should say my Mark III does but not the Mark IV. I tend to think the circuit board in the Mark IV does not need the heat on it all the time. I have seen some of them that has actually pulled the traces off the board due to heating. The Mark III's don't have this problem since everything is hardwired. Tram's also are subject to this with the exception of the handwired versions. But...this is just my opinion.
BC
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Post by mark4 on Jul 17, 2008 16:02:27 GMT -5
My MarkIVA or whatever browning/Tram I feel like running that day is always on when I am home.
If I leave for a short period of time I most likely will leave it on.
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Post by Ken (StormPhoto.net) on Jul 21, 2008 8:28:37 GMT -5
Hello I like that glow from the tubes it takes me back to the years when our radios were all that and then some so I will turn up the heat even if I am not going to talk on the cb's and I tend to think it is better for my radios well ok that glow is sweet to lol 73's all!
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Post by Tombstone (R.I.P.) on Jul 21, 2008 14:37:11 GMT -5
Except for the heat sensitive radios like the Tram D201/A's and the Mark IV /IVA's, not only is it easier on the tubes to not turn them of/on a lot, it's not as hard on the power supplys, the hard surge of powering them up puts a lot of strain on everything. I once ran my Browning R27/S23 for over a year before shutting it down, but you have to eventually for maintenance purposes like checking tubes. I ran my Mark III for about six months before shutting it down, It still has the original capacitors in it and once in awhile I do hear capacitor static, it needs the 100,000 mile tune up. I usually only run it during the weekends and then I'll let it run for two or three days before shutdown, trouble is, when the Browning's off I run my Cobra 2000 or SBE Trinidad and it seems like if I want to work skip the Mark III works the best for that, you'd think that wattage is wattage so it must be the ping that draws attention when working long distance, it's like darned if I do and darned if I don't.
Tombstone
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss
Posts: 6,250 
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Post by Sandbagger on Jul 21, 2008 21:18:56 GMT -5
Just like to know what others do. For the most part I keep my Browning Mark IVA on almost all of the time. I do turn it off when I leave the house which is very seldom. My other tube radios I turn on once per week! You know, I think we've all heard that it's usually better to leave tubes on than to turn them on and off. If you expect to use your tube radio every single day, then I guess it makes sense. But I have to wonder if leaving your radio on all the time, when you may only use it once or twice a week, would incur less wear than if you turned it on and off for those few hours that you use it? And it's not just the tubes. The more hours you put on parts like power resistors, the more they may drift. So again, is it better in the long run to leave it on if it's only being lightly used? If you're worried about inrush current, dialing it up gradually with a VARIAC should alleviate that. Another thing to consider is that these old classics are getting tougher to find original parts for. Do we really want to take that 100,000 mile rig and add another 100,000 miles? Food for thought. |
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Post by Tombstone (R.I.P.) on Jul 21, 2008 23:46:11 GMT -5
You have a good point, Sandbagger. The radios that I leave run 24/7 are used every day. I'd say if a radio is only used once in awhile, then shut it down until next time. When I ran my Series II Browning for a year without shutting it down, both units had been freshly recapped with all new resistors. You don't want to add that kind of extra mileage to a radio that already has 100,000 mile plus on it, that's why I shut down my Mark III and only leave it run constantly on the weekends and it's used almost all of the time during that period. I guess that it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. A variac will take the risk of the inrush of voltage every time equipment is turned on, I use one on my bench for old radios that haven't been powered up for years so I would need at least one more to do that.
Tombstone
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Post by 2600 on Jul 23, 2008 0:47:24 GMT -5
Boy, this sure sounds like a variation of the "Most of the wear on the engine in your car occurs when you start it cold".
That may be true, while the oil pressure is getting established, but you don't leave your daily driver idling in the driveway 24/7, do you? Whatever you gain by eliminating the "startup surge" wear is totally erased by the steady wear from letting it idle the rest of the time.
The overall life of the motor is measured in how many zillion times the crank spins one full turn, from when it's built to when it finally dies.
Same deal for tubes, filter caps, resistors, etc. Only the life of those parts is measure in hours, not revolutions.
Many of the small tubes used in a radio are meant for about 5000 hours. Many of them will run longer, but this is the target value. One year is 8,760 hours.
If you use a radio for 2.4 hours a day, you're using only 10 percent of those parts' total service life per day on the calendar.
It's just a tradeoff. I remember a customer from 30 years ago who wanted to leave his Siltronix 1011 running 24/7. Some tubes in that radio last only a year or maybe less at this duty cycle. Never mind the power resistors that overheat after the first six or eight hours.
Consider that if you turned it off for the other 21.6 hours a day, you would get up to ten times the calendar life from the same collection of parts.
But it's just a tradeoff. The guy said he worked three jobs. Didn't want to wait 30 or 40 minutes for the thing to fully stabilize. When he was ready to radio, he wanted to radio. NOW!
But if those three jobs paid enough to have stuff replaced ten times as soon as it should, it was HIS money, after all.
Just a tradeoff. The more money you have, the longer you can afford to let a tube radio run. Especially while you're NOT using it.
73
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Post by 2IR473 on Jul 23, 2008 6:44:44 GMT -5
The heater circuit in my Robyn T-123B is energized even when the radio is turned off, so I actually remove power from the older rigs until it is time to use them.
I don't want to leave 30-40 year old radios in a standby mode when left unattended. And many power cords to old radios are frayed, dried out and potentially hazardous, so it may be wise to treat these old rigs as the classics they are, and not expect the sort of energy efficiency and safety that today's rig have.
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss
Posts: 6,250
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Post by Sandbagger on Jul 23, 2008 7:15:44 GMT -5
Boy, this sure sounds like a variation of the "Most of the wear on the engine in your car occurs when you start it cold". That may be true, while the oil pressure is getting established, but you don't leave your daily driver idling in the driveway 24/7, do you? Whatever you gain by eliminating the "startup surge" wear is totally erased by the steady wear from letting it idle the rest of the time. The overall life of the motor is measured in how many zillion times the crank spins one full turn, from when it's built to when it finally dies. Same deal for tubes, filter caps, resistors, etc. Only the life of those parts is measure in hours, not revolutions. Many of the small tubes used in a radio are meant for about 5000 hours. Many of them will run longer, but this is the target value. One year is 8,760 hours. If you use a radio for 2.4 hours a day, you're using only 10 percent of those parts' total service life per day on the calendar. It's just a tradeoff. I remember a customer from 30 years ago who wanted to leave his Siltronix 1011 running 24/7. Some tubes in that radio last only a year or maybe less at this duty cycle. Never mind the power resistors that overheat after the first six or eight hours. Consider that if you turned it off for the other 21.6 hours a day, you would get up to ten times the calendar life from the same collection of parts. But it's just a tradeoff. The guy said he worked three jobs. Didn't want to wait 30 or 40 minutes for the thing to fully stabilize. When he was ready to radio, he wanted to radio. NOW! But if those three jobs paid enough to have stuff replaced ten times as soon as it should, it was HIS money, after all. Just a tradeoff. The more money you have, the longer you can afford to let a tube radio run. Especially while you're NOT using it. 73 That's pretty much where I was coming from as well. And it's not like it's still 1971, where you can run to the nearest drug store to replace a weak tube for $2.50. Some of these tubes are getting harder to find and tons more expensive, so I try to limit the hours they get. But I have to wonder if anyone ever quantified how much more "life" is lost (if any) in the initial power up of a tube vs. steady state operation. I would have to think that unless you use the radio every single day, that you'd probably save more life by turning it off when you're done. |
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss
Posts: 6,250
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Post by Sandbagger on Jul 23, 2008 7:18:07 GMT -5
The heater circuit in my Robyn T-123B is energized even when the radio is turned off, so I actually remove power from the older rigs until it is time to use them. I don't want to leave 30-40 year old radios in a standby mode when left unattended. And many power cords to old radios are frayed, dried out and potentially hazardous, so it may be wise to treat these old rigs as the classics they are, and not expect the sort of energy efficiency and safety that today's rig have. Speaking on the Robyn, will you be putting in an appearace on the Roundup tonight? It's been a while. I'm beginning to think you're avoiding us...... |
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Post by gator7 on Aug 11, 2008 7:05:54 GMT -5
I turn my MK III off when not in use. Duty cycle, power surge. All that nasty stuff.
I also don't mind the wait for the rig to stabilize. So, I turn them off.
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Post by midnight on Oct 7, 2008 12:35:34 GMT -5
When I was 15 in 1976, I idled my '68 Golden Eagle R/T AM rig all the time because the fashionable wisdom was to keep them running nonstop. It cost my Dad $15 more a month on his electric bill to do that, and he wouldn't let me pay him (I regularly paid the local Rexall drugstore for new tubes instead). But now that I'm paying, and reading what nonstop idling does to the resistors in the same-model rig, I turn it right off every night. And I just dream of buying those same tubes for $2.50-$7 apiece.
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Post by crazybob on Oct 14, 2009 11:55:55 GMT -5
I noticed that a Brownings receiver tubes seem to wear out faster than the transmit side. I'm thinking that the B+ is on in the rec. many times more. The transmiter just has the filiments on until it it keyed up.
Is there an easy way to install a standby swicth on the Browning receiver like the Comstat has? I think that the tubes would last longer than turning the rig off & on with less surges & metal fatigue?
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Post by cbrown on Oct 14, 2009 12:57:35 GMT -5
I only turn them on when I'm going to use them. Even way back in the 1970's when I was in school, they only went on when I was going to talk. Of course, the first thing I did when i got home was to turn the radio on, and then go make a snack and get a drink. Usually by the time I was ready to use the radio it was nicely warmed and and ready. It would stay on until I hit the sheets, which some nights turned out to be fairly early in the AM the next day.  |
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Post by Tombstone (R.I.P.) on Oct 14, 2009 16:01:36 GMT -5
I've revised my thinking on letting radios run 24/7. I know I've used up too many tubes like that and increases the mileage on the radio too much. I know that daily I'll be using my Cobra 2000 and Browning R27, S23, so I fire each one up in the mornings, run both periodically through the day and night but they get turned off when I'm done 'till the next morning. I do warm up my amp once in awhile when skip isn't running and I won't be needing it but when the band is open for weeks at a time I'll have the amp on standby until I know that I'm done for the day or night too.
Tombstone
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Post by crazybob on Oct 14, 2009 16:30:29 GMT -5
When you mute the receiver on a Browning, aren't you cutting off the B+?. When I unplug the round plug going from the trans. to the rec., it mutes. So I thinking that a switch in line with one of the pins on the round plug might put the rec. on standby & increase tube life? Am I on the right track?
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Post by Tombstone (R.I.P.) on Oct 14, 2009 20:51:03 GMT -5
I think that's the right track. Depending on the receiver model there are two pins that you want to jump to make it run without the control cable from the transmitter, they're shown on the schematic. I imagine that you would disconnect the wire from either of the two pins inside the receiver and put a switch in place, maybe mount it on the rear of the chassis. I'm not sure of the voltage on those pins so the switch would have to be able to handle a higher voltage and amp rating. My thinking might be flawed but someone here should know for sure.
Tombstone
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Post by crazybob on Oct 14, 2009 21:38:33 GMT -5
Thanks Tombstone! I just need to find out which pins, & what size switch. I think that the tubes would last a lot longer while on standby with no load (plate voltage). ..I would still shut it off every night.
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Post by Tombstone (R.I.P.) on Oct 14, 2009 23:48:47 GMT -5
The schematic for the radio will tell you what pins to jumper so I think that disconnecting either one of the wires that connect to the socket in the receiver and put the switch on that. The schematic should show the voltage at that point too. I'm thinking that you could also put a switch to shut off the B+ from the power transformer too? Doing that would be easier on the tubes just with the heaters running.
Tombstone
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Sandbagger
Administrator/The Boss
Posts: 6,250
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Post by Sandbagger on Oct 15, 2009 6:46:56 GMT -5
I've revised my thinking on letting radios run 24/7. I know I've used up too many tubes like that and increases the mileage on the radio too much. I know that daily I'll be using my Cobra 2000 and Browning R27, S23, so I fire each one up in the mornings, run both periodically through the day and night but they get turned off when I'm done 'till the next morning. I do warm up my amp once in awhile when skip isn't running and I won't be needing it but when the band is open for weeks at a time I'll have the amp on standby until I know that I'm done for the day or night too. Tombstone The argument about whether it is better to leave a tube rig on 24-7 has been going on as long as tubes have been around. In my own experience, I won't turn on a tube rig, if I only plan on listening for a few minutes. But if I'm going to be around for a few hours, then it goes on. But I've never left the rig on continuously. I have a Lafayette Comstat 25 which was made in 1965, and I picked up in 1974. I still have this radio. But other than the transmit final, the audio output, and one receiver front end tube, the rest of the tubes are all original. For about 3 years after I got the radio, it was on every day, and shut off every night. Now, would the tubes have a little more life in them if I had left the radio on 24-7? I really don't know. But realistically, if I have to retube a radio once every 30 or 40 years, I don't think I'll complain all that loudly. |
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Post by Marc on Oct 16, 2009 9:47:56 GMT -5
My MK III receiver has the original tubes that were in it when I picked it up (that was over 20 years ago) I only turn it on when I plan to use it . The transmitter has all new tubes the old ones are at about 85% . I just replaced all the tubes in my D201 but only because of all the work it required to bring it on line. That one I also only turn on when I plan to use it. If I don't plan to use them at least for an hour or more I use the Cobra.
Marc
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Post by Afterburner(OT-749) on Oct 16, 2009 23:15:12 GMT -5
You will all think that I am maybe even cruel but, My Brownings now stay off unless I am going to use them most all day. If I am only going to be talking for an hour or two, I use the Titan II and for shorter periods I use the RCI. What can I say, I am extremely partial to my Brownings.
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Post by wd8nia on Oct 17, 2009 18:21:08 GMT -5
The D201's my daily driver. I turn it on when I get home from work and, by the time my morning chores are done (30 min or so), it's warmed up and stabilized. I run it about 2 hours and then shut it down.
On my nights off, I normally run it 3-6 hours for local ragchew until it begins to "crackle" when I unkey it. Sounds like static build-up bleeding off, but I suspect crapped up relay contacts. Not technologically inclined....anyhow, when it quits I'll have it gone completely through, but I love running the rig so much I'm not going to QRT it until it does go belly up on me.
I treat my solid state and hammy tube stuff the same way....if I'm not going to use them they get turned off. If I'm only going to check out the action or just run the rig for under and hour or so, I use the solid state stuff.
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Post by mark4 on Oct 18, 2009 10:48:42 GMT -5
Same here. And by leaving the tuber on 24/7 you are putting allot of wear on more than just tubes.
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Post by cbrown on Oct 19, 2009 12:38:22 GMT -5
And by leaving the tuber on 24/7 you are putting allot of wear on more than just tubes. Agreed. Old capacitors, resistors, and rectifiers can fail just as easily as a tube. |
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