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Post by No Streak on Dec 12, 2016 13:53:08 GMT -5
FM mode Operation
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Post by No Streak on Dec 12, 2016 13:59:57 GMT -5
Delaware County Boys are going to do CH16 FM mode Operation night on Friday's. This was requested by some operators on the SSB Roundup. And I know it not part the band plan for 11 meters but if it brings people on radio so be it!
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 12, 2016 14:00:54 GMT -5
FM - "No static at all". I used to like running FM, when we did it back in the late 80's. But other than ham radios, none of my classic CB radios have FM. It was never a legal mode in the US.
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Post by No Streak on Dec 12, 2016 14:09:40 GMT -5
FM - "No static at all". I used to like running FM, when we did it back in the late 80's. But other than ham radios, none of my classic CB radios have FM. It was never a legal mode in the US. Yeah I understand that it's not part of the legal norm but it was requested but more than a few guys. So hey if it gets people on the air so be it right!
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Post by No Streak on Dec 12, 2016 14:10:20 GMT -5
Can you use a regular linear on FM mode?
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 12, 2016 14:53:48 GMT -5
Can you use a regular linear on FM mode? Yes! In fact, FM is the only modulated mode where a class C amplifier will not distort the heck out of your signal, so Yea Dave Made! FM also has no "swing", or "4:1 ratio" to worry about. Dead key power is peak power. They are one in the same. But since you can run your amp to it's full maximum power on carrier alone, it's a steady power and it'll draw more current and tend to run hotter.
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Post by No Streak on Dec 12, 2016 14:57:08 GMT -5
Can you use a regular linear on FM mode? Yes! In fact, FM is the only modulated mode where a class C amplifier will not distort the heck out of your signal, so Yea Dave Made! FM also has no "swing", or "4:1 ratio" to worry about. Dead key power is peak power. They are one in the same. But since you can run your amp to it's full maximum power on carrier alone, it's a steady power and it'll draw more current and tend to run hotter. So in FM mode is there reduced TVI or none? I know they ran in the U.K. because of that reason.
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 12, 2016 14:58:28 GMT -5
FM - "No static at all". I used to like running FM, when we did it back in the late 80's. But other than ham radios, none of my classic CB radios have FM. It was never a legal mode in the US. Yeah I understand that it's not part of the legal norm but it was requested but more than a few guys. So hey if it gets people on the air so be it right! Yea, I get all that. But my whole classic radio collection becomes worthless on FM. I'd have to run either my ICom 746pro, 706, or my cantankerous Yaesu FT757. None of which are "CB" radios, and that kind of takes something out of it. Just my opinion of course. I would never stand in the way of people wanting to have fun.
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Post by No Streak on Dec 12, 2016 15:01:00 GMT -5
Yeah I understand that it's not part of the legal norm but it was requested but more than a few guys. So hey if it gets people on the air so be it right! Yea, I get all that. But my whole classic radio collection becomes worthless on FM. I'd have to run either my ICom 746pro, 706, or my cantankerous Yaesu FT757. None of which are "CB" radios, and that kind of takes something out of it. Just my opinion of course. I would never stand in the way of people wanting to have fun. And that's kinda the point to get people involved in CB no matter what mode it is and a lot of guys have gear they like to run more so I'm all for chitchat!
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 12, 2016 15:02:28 GMT -5
Yes! In fact, FM is the only modulated mode where a class C amplifier will not distort the heck out of your signal, so Yea Dave Made! FM also has no "swing", or "4:1 ratio" to worry about. Dead key power is peak power. They are one in the same. But since you can run your amp to it's full maximum power on carrier alone, it's a steady power and it'll draw more current and tend to run hotter. So in FM mode is there reduced TVI or none? I know they ran in the U.K. because of that reason. I don't think the UK ran FM for TVI concerns, as an RF carrier is still an RF carrier and if it overloads a TV receiver, it won't matter what mode it's on. The one exception to that is that AM is more likely to be demodulated in basic audio amplifier circuits, so you can hear what is being said. FM would simply sound like a hum or buzz, but the interference would still be there. But there will not be any AM overmodulation splatter. But you have to be careful not to overdeviate. If that happens, you will exceed the receiver's bandwidth and literally "chop out" of the receiver. The proper deviation for HF FM is +/- 3 Khz.
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Post by No Streak on Dec 12, 2016 15:03:40 GMT -5
And it be nice to get you guys in there on Friday's hey you miss one night no big deal you still got two more nights to go lol.
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Post by renegade357 on Dec 12, 2016 19:46:32 GMT -5
And it be nice to get you guys in there on Friday's hey you miss one night no big deal you still got two more nights to go lol. I'm all in for FM Friday Night. I never did that in the past,even though my Lincoln had the MODE. I can't get in there until after 9:00.
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Post by No Streak on Dec 13, 2016 6:21:05 GMT -5
This I'm using a SuperStar 3600 which is the same thing as a Cobra 148 GTL-DX. Doing some early 80's retro!
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Post by renegade357 on Dec 14, 2016 11:57:41 GMT -5
I'll be on the Stryker, I didn't get the Lincoln hooked back up yet. I don't think I ever had the FM dial even turned. I get to get some pictures on here!!!! LOL
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 14, 2016 12:04:29 GMT -5
I'll be on the Stryker, I didn't get the Lincoln hooked back up yet. I don't think I ever had the FM dial even turned. I get to get some pictures on here!!!! LOL Pictures are always great to see.
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Post by cbrown on Dec 14, 2016 13:22:20 GMT -5
FM - "No static at all". I used to like running FM, when we did it back in the late 80's. But other than ham radios, none of my classic CB radios have FM. It was never a legal mode in the US. Used to be in a DX group that would use FM up around 27.655 MHz. It was fun, and the nice thing was you could run on of the Class C linears.
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 14, 2016 17:04:03 GMT -5
FM - "No static at all". I used to like running FM, when we did it back in the late 80's. But other than ham radios, none of my classic CB radios have FM. It was never a legal mode in the US. Used to be in a DX group that would use FM up around 27.655 MHz. It was fun, and the nice thing was you could run on of the Class C linears. Back in the mid to late 80's, I ran with a group of people on 26.675 FM. I started off with a President Jackson, and then bought a Yaesu FT757. The 757 was a little hot on the deviation so I had to back it down a little bit to avoid chopping out of the other guy's receiver. The fidelity on FM sounded much better. It was crisper and clearer (This was back before anyone around the area ran HiFi on AM). But because of the huge amount of noise that the FM detector added, you couldn't copy as weak a signal on FM as you could on AM. But we made up for it by running a lot more power. Didn't have to worry about setting the carrier to 1/4 of the peak power, and could go all the way to max, which was good for 6 more db, and that made up for the receiver deficiency. One thing I hated about running FM in the mobile was that the squelch was always popping open and closed as you ran through areas of noise. Most of the export radios utilized a simple carrier level squelch like on AM. But better quality FM radio use a noise gate squelch, which opens when a certain (adjustable) ratio of signal quieted the receiver noise. I ended up designing a noise squelch with a high pass audio filter op amp, and detector diodes. and put it in the Jackson. This ended up working much better. Eventually, the group died off and the rest of us ended up back on AM somewhere. I haven't really run FM since then.
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Post by BBB on Dec 14, 2016 17:17:13 GMT -5
FM is not an approved mode on 27 MHz in the USA. Going to piss off the Hams. They know we're Hams. Maybe not such a good idea... same reason we don't freeband.
Just say'n.
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 14, 2016 19:25:13 GMT -5
FM is not an approved mode on 27 MHz in the USA. Going to piss off the Hams. They know we're Hams. Maybe not such a good idea... same reason we don't freeband. Just say'n. That's kind of where my head is at as well. We've gotten a lot of visibility (and a lot of it was positive) thanks to the popularity of Classic Radio Roundup. I know there are hams (some are cool, others stuffed shirts) who listen in and some have actually joined in. I have not transmitted on a non-allocated channel in years, and I don't operate in a way that would make it obvious that I'm not 100% legal. Yes, there's always that 10db boost running, but I try not to call attention to it. I'd prefer not to engage in obvious illegalities, lest I get an E-Mail from my OO buddy with my name on his list . On the other hand, Ol' Zero-Five engaged in all sorts of dark activities and only toward the very end did he appear on the radar of the FCC and the OO guys. Hey your choice....
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Post by No Streak on Dec 15, 2016 6:39:57 GMT -5
I fully understand that it's not part of the 27mhz band plan. But do to the fact that it is only one day a week and only a four hour window I don't see the harm. Really does anyone run legal on 11 meter band? No I find tons of hams and non-hams on 38 LSB running radios Hi End gear that is no way suppose to be on 11 meter band. It might not even take off or last that long so be it. But like Sandbagger says we have a lot of stuff shirts in the Ham radio ranks that think they have the power to rule. And that is just abuse of a privilege in my eyes. So my goal to make something interesting so people will get involved in talking on the radio and having a great time doing it. In like what you guys have done with the Classic Radio Roundup and we did with SSB Roundup on CH16. So we will see what happens. I would like to see a nice turnout hopefully you jump in or just listen but everyone is more than welcome to participate.
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 15, 2016 11:47:14 GMT -5
I fully understand that it's not part of the 27mhz band plan. But do to the fact that it is only one day a week and only a four hour window I don't see the harm. Really does anyone run legal on 11 meter band? No I find tons of hams and non-hams on 38 LSB running radios Hi End gear that is no way suppose to be on 11 meter band. It might not even take off or last that long so be it. But like Sandbagger says we have a lot of stuff shirts in the Ham radio ranks that think they have the power to rule. And that is just abuse of a privilege in my eyes. So my goal to make something interesting so people will get involved in talking on the radio and having a great time doing it. In like what you guys have done with the Classic Radio Roundup and we did with SSB Roundup on CH16. So we will see what happens. I would like to see a nice turnout hopefully you jump in or just listen but everyone is more than welcome to participate. The problem isn't really about the general legality (or not) of CB operators, it's the ramifications of running illegally on the 11 meter band if you are also a licensed ham. If you don't have a ham license, you are pretty much on your own and the FCC probably won't bother you unless you make a complete ass of yourself, and start interfering with other services. If you are a licensed ham, and you run illegally on the 11 meter band, like running on the freeband or making it obvious that you're not legal, there are other hams who will gladly dime you out, and it would seem that the FCC, in recent years, has been tougher on hams running out of band than unlicensed 11 meter ops. Presumably because hams are supposed to "know better". Running a ham rig on a legal CB channel isn't really obvious, because they really don't sound much different from a legal CB, except for greater power, which could be shrugged off by a better antenna or location as the reason for a stronger signal. But operating on an out of band channel or mode would be obvious to even the most casual observer. One of the reasons we try to run as clean a signal as we do on CRR, is so that our group wouldn't be confused with the "all knobs to the right" crowd who also make it obvious that they're running illegally by excessive splatter, distorted amplifiers, excessive swing either forward or backward, or just excessively loud. Back when CRR was in its first year of operation, I overheard a couple of hams on a local 2 meter repeater talking about us bringing back the old rigs. They were complimentary on our audio quality, and were generally positive and also made the statement "At least someone is trying to do something good down on that wasteland". It felt good to hear that, but it also made it clear that we are being monitored. As long as we stick to that original CRR theme (restoring old rigs, helping others with the same, passing on good knowledge and info, and being good radio neighbors), we'll stay respected. If we start to get too obnoxious, we'll get lumped in with the rest of the "deplorables" on CB. Maybe I shouldn't care, but I liked having that respect from other hams, some of whom I don't even know, who generally hate CB'ers. But I grew up on CB and had a ton more fun with it, back in a time when there were still good operators and respect on the band, and that's why I like talking here. You could have some good clean slapstick fun, but it didn't cross the line. That being said, I'm not trying to talk you guys out of running FM Friday's. You guys do what you want to do, it's all good. I'm just giving reasons why I will probably not participate (assuming that I'm even around on Friday nights, which would be rare), except to listen and maybe gate.
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Post by No Streak on Dec 15, 2016 12:12:48 GMT -5
I fully understand that it's not part of the 27mhz band plan. But do to the fact that it is only one day a week and only a four hour window I don't see the harm. Really does anyone run legal on 11 meter band? No I find tons of hams and non-hams on 38 LSB running radios Hi End gear that is no way suppose to be on 11 meter band. It might not even take off or last that long so be it. But like Sandbagger says we have a lot of stuff shirts in the Ham radio ranks that think they have the power to rule. And that is just abuse of a privilege in my eyes. So my goal to make something interesting so people will get involved in talking on the radio and having a great time doing it. In like what you guys have done with the Classic Radio Roundup and we did with SSB Roundup on CH16. So we will see what happens. I would like to see a nice turnout hopefully you jump in or just listen but everyone is more than welcome to participate. The problem isn't really about the general legality (or not) of CB operators, it's the ramifications of running illegally on the 11 meter band if you are also a licensed ham. If you don't have a ham license, you are pretty much on your own and the FCC probably won't bother you unless you make a complete ass of yourself, and start interfering with other services. If you are a licensed ham, and you run illegally on the 11 meter band, like running on the freeband or making it obvious that you're not legal, there are other hams who will gladly dime you out, and it would seem that the FCC, in recent years, has been tougher on hams running out of band than unlicensed 11 meter ops. Presumably because hams are supposed to "know better". Running a ham rig on a legal CB channel isn't really obvious, because they really don't sound much different from a legal CB, except for greater power, which could be shrugged off by a better antenna or location as the reason for a stronger signal. But operating on an out of band channel or mode would be obvious to even the most casual observer. One of the reasons we try to run as clean a signal as we do on CRR, is so that our group wouldn't be confused with the "all knobs to the right" crowd who also make it obvious that they're running illegally by excessive splatter, distorted amplifiers, excessive swing either forward or backward, or just excessively loud. Back when CRR was in its first year of operation, I overheard a couple of hams on a local 2 meter repeater talking about us bringing back the old rigs. They were complimentary on our audio quality, and were generally positive and also made the statement "At least someone is trying to do something good down on that wasteland". It felt good to hear that, but it also made it clear that we are being monitored. As long as we stick to that original CRR theme (restoring old rigs, helping others with the same, passing on good knowledge and info, and being good radio neighbors), we'll stay respected. If we start to get too obnoxious, we'll get lumped in with the rest of the "deplorables" on CB. Maybe I shouldn't care, but I liked having that respect from other hams, some of whom I don't even know, who generally hate CB'ers. But I grew up on CB and had a ton more fun with it, back in a time when there were still good operators and respect on the band, and that's why I like talking here. You could have some good clean slapstick fun, but it didn't cross the line. That being said, I'm not trying to talk you guys out of running FM Friday's. You guys do what you want to do, it's all good. I'm just giving reasons why I will probably not participate (assuming that I'm even around on Friday nights, which would be rare), except to listen and maybe gate. Well I respect that Bagger and to anyone else and fully understand. I'm am not a amateur radio operator or do I want to be due to the immaturity of some individuals in Ham community. I truly respect and talk to Amateur operators and pick there brain about questions I might have on radio or antenna issues. I also monitor a lot of bands and find displeasing level of unprofessionalism among the amateur operators which has left me to wonder what's the benefit. And to be honest most of them are not my crowd. But the ones I know are exceptions to the rule. But I thought I would just put it out there just in case anybody was interested in joining us on Fridays. And even if it don't take off at least it made the forum conversation pick up about the interest in it.
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Post by No Streak on Dec 16, 2016 9:06:27 GMT -5
Well here we go the First ever FM Roundup CH16 tonight @8pm. Hope to hear you in there! We'll leave the light on for ya.
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Post by cbrown on Dec 16, 2016 13:56:03 GMT -5
Back in the mid to late 80's, I ran with a group of people on 26.675 FM. I started off with a President Jackson, and then bought a Yaesu FT757. The 757 was a little hot on the deviation so I had to back it down a little bit to avoid chopping out of the other guy's receiver. The fidelity on FM sounded much better. It was crisper and clearer (This was back before anyone around the area ran HiFi on AM). But because of the huge amount of noise that the FM detector added, you couldn't copy as weak a signal on FM as you could on AM. But we made up for it by running a lot more power. Didn't have to worry about setting the carrier to 1/4 of the peak power, and could go all the way to max, which was good for 6 more db, and that made up for the receiver deficiency. One thing I hated about running FM in the mobile was that the squelch was always popping open and closed as you ran through areas of noise. Most of the export radios utilized a simple carrier level squelch like on AM. But better quality FM radio use a noise gate squelch, which opens when a certain (adjustable) ratio of signal quieted the receiver noise. I ended up designing a noise squelch with a high pass audio filter op amp, and detector diodes. and put it in the Jackson. This ended up working much better. Eventually, the group died off and the rest of us ended up back on AM somewhere. I haven't really run FM since then. We noticed that too, weaker stations seems to get lost easier in the floor noise on FM mode as compared to AM. But, as you point out the clarity was amazing!
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 16, 2016 19:41:43 GMT -5
Back in the mid to late 80's, I ran with a group of people on 26.675 FM. I started off with a President Jackson, and then bought a Yaesu FT757. The 757 was a little hot on the deviation so I had to back it down a little bit to avoid chopping out of the other guy's receiver. The fidelity on FM sounded much better. It was crisper and clearer (This was back before anyone around the area ran HiFi on AM). But because of the huge amount of noise that the FM detector added, you couldn't copy as weak a signal on FM as you could on AM. But we made up for it by running a lot more power. Didn't have to worry about setting the carrier to 1/4 of the peak power, and could go all the way to max, which was good for 6 more db, and that made up for the receiver deficiency. One thing I hated about running FM in the mobile was that the squelch was always popping open and closed as you ran through areas of noise. Most of the export radios utilized a simple carrier level squelch like on AM. But better quality FM radio use a noise gate squelch, which opens when a certain (adjustable) ratio of signal quieted the receiver noise. I ended up designing a noise squelch with a high pass audio filter op amp, and detector diodes. and put it in the Jackson. This ended up working much better. Eventually, the group died off and the rest of us ended up back on AM somewhere. I haven't really run FM since then. We noticed that too, weaker stations seems to get lost easier in the floor noise on FM mode as compared to AM. But, as you point out the clarity was amazing! Another "nice" trait of FM is the consistency of the audio loudness in relation to signal. With AM, as a station's signal gets stronger, their relative audio loudness gradually increases. Someone giving you +10 over S9 will be noticeably louder than he would be at S5. But with FM, once the signal quiets the receiver (which is usually around 6db over threshold signal) the volume of the audio remains nearly constant. Without looking at the S meter, you can't tell the difference between an S7 and a +30 over signal just by listening. It's a shame really that the FCC doesn't authorize FM for the CB band. If the radios "do it" right, it's not much different than 6 meter FM.
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Post by No Streak on Dec 16, 2016 20:47:28 GMT -5
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Post by buffalobob on Dec 16, 2016 20:53:40 GMT -5
First FM Friday night!! Headcount about 8:50pm is 8 so far. Something different to do and adds more versatility to use the modes of our radios!!!
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Post by BBB on Dec 17, 2016 12:09:21 GMT -5
You can use any mode that works in an Emergency and one would want to test said Emergency radio equipment periodically to assure it functions properly.
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Post by Sandbagger on Dec 17, 2016 13:05:37 GMT -5
You can use any mode that works in an Emergency and one would want to test said Emergency radio equipment periodically to assure it functions properly. That's weak, but go for it.........
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Post by BBB on Dec 17, 2016 13:20:59 GMT -5
You can use any mode that works in an Emergency and one would want to test said Emergency radio equipment periodically to assure it functions properly. That's weak, but go for it......... **Band Plans and Specifications are subject to change without notice. Band Plans are copyrighted and/or otherwise subject to intellectual property rights of all Radio Operators and/or others and cannot be reproduced or copied without prior written consent.
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