Anytone 10 Meter HI Power CB

[oldgeezer]

NEW- Do not buy this Anytone Apollo radio. New models will not go on the CB band like previous models.

[Sandbagger]

Mar 19, 2024 8:11:08 GMT -5 oldgeezer said:

The Anytone Apollo II is the best deal on an AM-FM radio for 10 meters and CB.  Has up to 40 watts out. CB frequencies has channel display too. $109 new at Walmart it is cheaper than most new 4 watt better quality CBs. The used same power output 40 to 60 watt radios on eBay are selling for over $200 used and about $350 new. Some on eBay have SSB, but I do not use SSB. 

The 40 watts will definitely drive my D&A Phantom 10 tube amp to 1000 watts out.

The Phantom amp is designed for a 3 watt carrier drive level, with 12 watts PEP. Anything significantly more than that will overdrive the amp. In extreme cases where knuckleheads try to drive it with one of those RCI/Galaxy bases with a 100 watt output, burnout of the input matching network is likely.

Amps have a finite maximum output level and driving it harder will not give you more out - at least not on the frequency you are transmitting on. Increased spurious and IMD products will show up on the wattmeter as increased power, but it's dirty power. Not to mention you'll kill the tubes in a New York minute.

[oldgeezer]

I disagree with 3 watt carrier and 12 watt peak CB driving the D&A 10 tube amp. I am using a 4 watt with 16 watts peak and the amp makes 225 watts with 800 watt peak. The amp is rated to 900 watts peak out with 6LQ6 tubes. D&A specs the amp at 1350 watts input. Output is 1350 watts x .66 (efficiency) or 891 watts out. My amp has 100% quality tubes. Using heavy duty RCA 6MJ6 heavy glass black plate cap tubes the amp will produce 1000 watts peak out and the transformers can easily handle 1000 watts.

[Sandbagger]

Mar 23, 2024 6:02:09 GMT -5 oldgeezer said:

I disagree with 3 watt carrier and 12 watt peak CB driving the D&A 10 tube amp. I am using a 4 watt with 16 watts peak and the amp makes 225 watts with 800 watt peak. The amp is rated to 900 watts peak out with 6LQ6 tubes. D&A specs the amp at 1350 watts input. Output is 1350 watts x .66 (efficiency) or 891 watts out. My amp has 100% quality tubes. Using heavy duty RCA 6MJ6 heavy glass black plate cap tubes the amp will produce 1000 watts peak out and the transformers can easily handle 1000 watts.

You are certainly free to disagree, however the facts remain. When that amp was designed, it was meant for a 3 watt carrier/12 watt PEP radio. Driving it with one more watt certainly wont kill it. But driving it with 40 watts certainly will. Take power ratings with a grain of salt, and as I said previously, there is a hard stop at the maximum tube powe output. Driving it harder from that point will only push the amp into saturation. You might get a few more (highly distorted) watts out, but you do so at the expense of shortened tube life and dirty signals. Bear in mind that the difference between 800 watts PEP and 900 watts PEP will not even register on the receiving end. In order to increase signal a simple 1/2 of an S unit, you would have to DOUBLE your output power. No way that amp will do 1600 watts PEP, so just enjoy it as it was meant to be enjoyed and it will provide a long service life.

[oldgeezer]

Mar 23, 2024 19:56:02 GMT -5 Sandbagger said:

Mar 23, 2024 6:02:09 GMT -5 oldgeezer said:

I disagree with 3 watt carrier and 12 watt peak CB driving the D&A 10 tube amp. I am using a 4 watt with 16 watts peak and the amp makes 225 watts with 800 watt peak. The amp is rated to 900 watts peak out with 6LQ6 tubes. D&A specs the amp at 1350 watts input. Output is 1350 watts x .66 (efficiency) or 891 watts out. My amp has 100% quality tubes. Using heavy duty RCA 6MJ6 heavy glass black plate cap tubes the amp will produce 1000 watts peak out and the transformers can easily handle 1000 watts.

You are certainly free to disagree, however the facts remain. When that amp was designed, it was meant for a 3 watt carrier/12 watt PEP radio. Driving it with one more watt certainly wont kill it. But driving it with 40 watts certainly will. Take power ratings with a grain of salt, and as I said previously, there is a hard stop at the maximum tube powe output. Driving it harder from that point will only push the amp into saturation. You might get a few more (highly distorted) watts out, but you do so at the expense of shortened tube life and dirty signals. Bear in mind that the difference between 800 watts PEP and 900 watts PEP will not even register on the receiving end. In order to increase signal a simple 1/2 of an S unit, you would have to DOUBLE your output power. No way that amp will do 1600 watts PEP, so just enjoy it as it was meant to be enjoyed and it will provide a long service life.

I stated the Anytone was capable of 40 watts. I also stated I will use the Anytone at 5 watts carrier and 20 watts peak. I never stated the amp will produce 1600 watts peak output. No damage will occur to the amplifier using 20 watts peak. The amp will likely output up to 1000 watts., but you do make a point 800 or 1000 watts will not be noticed on the receive end. The three transformers weigh 30lbs or more than enough for 1000 watt peak output. The tubes will also survive at 1000 watts peak output as the 6MJ6 are heavy duty 6LQ6 and some stated the plates are 40 watt dissipation, but not sure. You also forget he driver tubes pass on the drive power to the output thus the six final tubes are actually producing about 850 watts peak.  That will not damage the tubes as you state. You state 3 watts carrier and 12 watts peak is maximum. At 12 watts peak the D&A amp produces 650 watts peak and D&A states in the manual 1350 watts input or about 900 watts peak output. At 650 watts buy a much cheaper Palomar 300A. The manual states using a 4 watt CB and the manual input power is in attachment. You re just wrong.

[Sandbagger]

Mar 23, 2024 20:19:20 GMT -5 oldgeezer said:

Mar 23, 2024 19:56:02 GMT -5 Sandbagger said:

You are certainly free to disagree, however the facts remain. When that amp was designed, it was meant for a 3 watt carrier/12 watt PEP radio. Driving it with one more watt certainly wont kill it. But driving it with 40 watts certainly will. Take power ratings with a grain of salt, and as I said previously, there is a hard stop at the maximum tube powe output. Driving it harder from that point will only push the amp into saturation. You might get a few more (highly distorted) watts out, but you do so at the expense of shortened tube life and dirty signals. Bear in mind that the difference between 800 watts PEP and 900 watts PEP will not even register on the receiving end. In order to increase signal a simple 1/2 of an S unit, you would have to DOUBLE your output power. No way that amp will do 1600 watts PEP, so just enjoy it as it was meant to be enjoyed and it will provide a long service life.

I stated the Anytone was capable of 40 watts. I also stated I will use the Anytone at 5 watts carrier and 20 watts peak. I never stated the amp will produce 1600 watts peak output. No damage will occur to the amplifier using 20 watts peak. The amp will likely output up to 1000 watts., but you do make a point 800 or 1000 watts will not be noticed on the receive end. The three transformers weigh 30lbs or more than enough for 1000 watt peak output. The tubes will also survive at 1000 watts peak output as the 6MJ6 are heavy duty 5LQ6 and some stated the plates are 40 watt dissipation, but not sure. You also forget he driver tubes pass on the drive power to the output thus the six final tubes are actually producing about 850 watts peak.  That will not damage the tubes as you state. You state 3 watts carrier and 12 watts peak is maximum. At 12 watts peak the D&A amp produces 650 watts peak and D&A states in the manual 1350 watts input or about 900 watts peak output. At 650 watts buy a much cheaper Palomar 300A.

In the end, it's your amp, so you do you. But I can remember a time much further back than it seems to me, where guys were running these amps and looking for those big dead key numbers. Yes, they will do it, but they will backswing horribly on an average reading meter (like a Bird 43) and tend to sound "pinched" or "rough around the edges" as you are not able to maintain the proper 4:1 modulation to carrier ratio at anything higher than 200-250 watts carrier output. And on high power, you can easily exceed 250 watts dead key with just a simple 4 watt radio. I had a Maverick 250 40 years ago, and a stock 4 watt radio would push that to 300 watts carrier on high power, and it was "pinched" and backswung at that level. That amp would do about 600 watts PEP. I usually ran it on low power where the carrier output was 150 watts (but would still peak at 600 watts PEP), and it was crystal clear at that point. The Maverick and the Phantom use the same 4 driver tubes. The difference is 300 more peak watts from the 2 extra final tubes.

[oldgeezer]

Again your knowledge about the D&A is dead wrong. The amp on high power dead keys 225 watts with a 4 watt CB not higher as you state. It has forward swing to 800 watts, not a backward swing as you state. You also state it cannot use more than a 3 watt CB, yet the manual states using a 4 watt CB to produce 1360 watts input. This is from the factory and I assume you did not work at the factory. At 1360 watts input the output is rated at 900 watts. You can view the  D&A Phantom manual at CB Tricks. I am done.

[Sandbagger]

Mar 24, 2024 14:05:29 GMT -5 oldgeezer said:

Again your knowledge about the D&A is dead wrong. The amp on high power dead keys 225 watts with a 4 watt CB not higher as you state. It has forward swing to 800 watts, not a backward swing as you state. You also state it cannot use more than a 3 watt CB, yet the manual states using a 4 watt CB to produce 1360 watts input. This is from the factory and I assume you did not work at the factory. At 1360 watts input the output is rated at 900 watts. You can view the  D&A Phantom manual at CB Tricks. I am done.

You go ahead and keep quoting the manual. No one in the CB business has ever embellished on a spec have they? I am telling you what I've seen from hands on personal experience. I've been doing this stuff for over 50 years, and I've learned a lot of lessons the hard way and wasted a few too many tubes in the process. I'm just trying to save you from the same fate. My pain is your gain. But for some reason, you keep pushing back against sound advice. Not sure why. Are you on some sort of "1000 watts or bust" quest?

Oh and BTW, that 1360 watts input spec that you quoted from the manual? Yeah, that's taken on 20 meters (14 Mhz). Most experienced people know that tubes, especially sweep tubes, fall off on output power the higher up the bands they go. Usually the power output at 28 Mhz is about 10-15% lower than it would be at 14 Mhz.

Lastly, I never said that you can't put more than 3 (or even 4) watts into it. I said that the amp was originally designed (remember this amp was designed in the late 60's when CB radios typically made 3 watts output) for a 3 watt input, to provide a good balance of Peak-Carrier ratio. Sure, you can drive it harder, and it will put out more power - to a point. But you will eventually run out of modulation headroom. When you no longer can 100% modulate to 4 times your carrier power, your modulation symmetry becomes unbalanced (more negative than positive), which will result in a backward swing on an average reading power meter (which is why I don't use peak reading meters for setting proper carrier level, they will always show some forward swing, even if the peak:carrier ratio is insufficient). As long as you are only getting 200-250 watts out carrier-wise, then you won't have backswing (provided you tuned it up for maximum Peak power and not dead key power). But don't expect to push it much more than that and have enough reserve headroom to avoid backswing.

But like I said before, you do you. Good luck!

[oldgeezer]

Mar 24, 2024 16:37:18 GMT -5 Sandbagger said:

Mar 24, 2024 14:05:29 GMT -5 oldgeezer said:

Again your knowledge about the D&A is dead wrong. The amp on high power dead keys 225 watts with a 4 watt CB not higher as you state. It has forward swing to 800 watts, not a backward swing as you state. You also state it cannot use more than a 3 watt CB, yet the manual states using a 4 watt CB to produce 1360 watts input. This is from the factory and I assume you did not work at the factory. At 1360 watts input the output is rated at 900 watts. You can view the  D&A Phantom manual at CB Tricks. I am done.

'You go ahead and keep quoting the manual. No one in the CB business has ever embellished on a spec have they? I am telling you what I've seen from hands on personal experience. I've been doing this stuff for over 50 years, and I've learned a lot of lessons the hard way and wasted a few too many tubes in the process. I'm just trying to save you from the same fate. My pain is your gain. But for some reason, you keep pushing back against sound advice. Not sure why. Are you on some sort of "1000 watts or bust" quest?

Oh and BTW, that 1360 watts input spec that you quoted from the manual? Yeah, that's taken on 20 meters (14 Mhz). Most experienced people know that tubes, especially sweep tubes, fall off on output power the higher up the bands they go. Usually the power output at 28 Mhz is about 10-15% lower than it would be at 14 Mhz.

Lastly, I never said that you can't put more than 3 (or even 4) watts into it. I said that the amp was originally designed (remember this amp was designed in the late 60's when CB radios typically made 3 watts output) for a 3 watt input, to provide a good balance of Peak-Carrier ratio. Sure, you can drive it harder, and it will put out more power - to a point. But you will eventually run out of modulation headroom. When you no longer can 100% modulate to 4 times your carrier power, your modulation symmetry becomes unbalanced (more negative than positive), which will result in a backward swing on an average reading power meter (which is why I don't use peak reading meters for setting proper carrier level, they will always show some forward swing, even if the peak:carrier ratio is insufficient). As long as you are only getting 200-250 watts out carrier-wise, then you won't have backswing (provided you tuned it up for maximum Peak power and not dead key power). But don't expect to push it much more than that and have enough reserve headroom to avoid backswing.

But like I said before, you do you. Good luck!'

FAIR ENOUGH. I do not have 50 years experience. I will keep output to 800 watts on my meter with a 4 watt CB input. I use a 'slow' analog peak meter and likely peak is 900 watts.
You stated 1960s era, but I believe D&A built amps as shown at Radio Muesum from 1970 to about 1982.